portland_bill said:

Two memories of Reliants. The first being trying to suspend tow one, absolutely nothing to lift at the front, had to put chains underneath, padded with old tyres to spread the load, then drive very slowly to avoid bumps tearing the front off.

Seeing one being driven towards a pit. Several of us shouted at once, driver stopped it just as the front wheel teetered on the edge. There was about six of use trying to hold it up, out of the pit as the driver reversed very slowly to avoid us all falling over and the car dropping in.

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To see a 3 wheeler of any sort in the workshop was very unusual - I think most were/are owner maintained. I used to work recovery quite a bit as it meant extra money to be on standby. Luckily never had to try to suspend tow one of these! More Regals than Robins in those days.

As I mentioned a few posts above, one of our apprentices (there usually was only one but occasionally two) tried to drive one onto the 4 poster. This ramp was not flush fitted to the floor but was bolted at each corner to the workshop floor so had "flappy" ramps up to the channels which accommodated the wheels and a very substantial beam across the front. (pretty standard installation as in many workshops). The lad drove it at the ramp at a reasonable speed. The front wheel mounted the beam which launched the front of the car into the air to come crashing back down again, straddling the beam, with an impressive cacophony of noise. We all started to wander over to see what had happened but the boss chased us all back to work and the car was hauled out into the rear yard. There was oil on the floor at the front of the ramp and obviously lots of damage to the car which sat in the yard for some time and then disappeared on the back of the scrappy's wagon. The laddy didn't get "the push" which actually raised my impression of the boss considerably but it was one of those incidents which was seldom talked about and I think we were all a bit ashamed it had happened. I guess the garage's insurance covered it?

It is inevitable in a garage environment that accidents will happen, occasionally very expensive ones. It is s tribute to the methodical work of most mechanics that these are rare.

A Metro automatic was placed face towards the bench, engine left running, bonnet up, and the mechanic was listening for the 'occasional funny noise' the owner complained about. Something the owner failed to mention was the tendency to drop into drive on its own. As the mechanic stepped to one side (luckily) to walk around to set the two-post lift to raise it so he could listen underneath, there was a clunk and the car moved forwards, burying its nose under the lip of the bench.
The car was dragged out and after adjustment of the selector cable (which was also the cause of the noise due to misaligned valves inside the box), the car disappeared into the bodyshop. Minutes later, a sign, liberated from outside somewhere, was placed on the wall above the bench. "No vehicles beyond this point".

Becky's been entertaining a visitor since Sunday.





Poor Twinkle has been ousted to the kerbside.



My boy and his family are away on a weeks holiday and he has left his Punto (1.4 8 valve) with me whilst he's away. So far I've given it an extensive service and tried to sort the low bite point on the clutch. I thought it was trapped air which was the problem, but no! After running a good half litre of fluid through it it feels exactly the same. I think it may be the master cylinder itself but not convinced. Think I'll let it "develop" for a wee while to see if a more obvious solution presents. The clutch "bites" well and doesn't slip, just has very long pedal travel before anything happens.

I've mentioned elsewhere that I thought it had a leaky driveshaft/gearbox seal on the N/S but turns out it's actually the gearbox selector shaft seal. After reading the guide in the Grande Punto section I decided to have a go at this myself so ordered the seal and a new roll pin from our local main dealer. Identifying the items (only the two) proved quite a trial as I wasn't allowed access to the stores inner sanctum where the computer is so there was a lot of tooing and froing with printed pictures of what they thought I wanted. We got there in the end though but letting me see the screen would have saved half a rain forest! "The only one I can find is in Dundee so it'll come down on tomorrows van, should be here tomorrow afternoon". I left my 'phone number. By about 4.30 today still no call, so I rang them. Oh yes, it's here (apparently arrived around lunchtime). It hasn't held me back as I was finishing off the service work this afternoon, but it would have been nice if they'd rang.

I've now had enough time to dwell on what could go wrong whilst doing this seal (usually around 5.30/6.00 am whilst I'm still feeling dozy) as it involves removing the selector housing from the top of the gearbox - oh dear, what will happen if something falls in? but why should it? Might the selector shaft fracture when I'm driving the roll pin out - or back in. Got to remove the battery for access too so should I wire up a "saver" battery in case the radio decides to be "difficult". Oh stop it Jock!!

Jobs for the future will include a new sump and exhaust front pipe, which could be very handily done at the same time as it's best to drop the front pipe to facilitate the sump job. Oh and I noticed a wee weep from the crankshaft front seal - it was dry as a bone last year when I did the timing belt. This car is only two years younger than Becky. The bodies on both vehicles are in very similar condition but Becky's running gear is considerably more corroded. Becky has about 20,000 miles more under her wheels than the Punto.

It most likely needs a new clutch master cylinder. Mine was much the same before it was replaced.


At least the Punto parts are a reasonable cost. https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...kw=fiat+punto+clutch+master+cylinder&_sacat=0

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Becky's been entertaining a visitor since Sunday.

View attachment 202919

View attachment 202920

Poor Twinkle has been ousted to the kerbside.

View attachment 202921

My boy and his family are away on a weeks holiday and he has left his Punto (1.4 8 valve) with me whilst he's away. So far I've given it an extensive service and tried to sort the low bite point on the clutch. I thought it was trapped air which was the problem, but no! After running a good half litre of fluid through it it feels exactly the same. I think it may be the master cylinder itself but not convinced. Think I'll let it "develop" for a wee while to see if a more obvious solution presents. The clutch "bites" well and doesn't slip, just has very long pedal travel before anything happens.

I've mentioned elsewhere that I thought it had a leaky driveshaft/gearbox seal on the N/S but turns out it's actually the gearbox selector shaft seal. After reading the guide in the Grande Punto section I decided to have a go at this myself so ordered the seal and a new roll pin from our local main dealer. Identifying the items (only the two) proved quite a trial as I wasn't allowed access to the stores inner sanctum where the computer is so there was a lot of tooing and froing with printed pictures of what they thought I wanted. We got there in the end though but letting me see the screen would have saved half a rain forest! "The only one I can find is in Dundee so it'll come down on tomorrows van, should be here tomorrow afternoon". I left my 'phone number. By about 4.30 today still no call, so I rang them. Oh yes, it's here (apparently arrived around lunchtime). It hasn't held me back as I was finishing off the service work this afternoon, but it would have been nice if they'd rang.

I've now had enough time to dwell on what could go wrong whilst doing this seal (usually around 5.30/6.00 am whilst I'm still feeling dozy) as it involves removing the selector housing from the top of the gearbox - oh dear, what will happen if something falls in? but why should it? Might the selector shaft fracture when I'm driving the roll pin out - or back in. Got to remove the battery for access too so should I wire up a "saver" battery in case the radio decides to be "difficult". Oh stop it Jock!!

Jobs for the future will include a new sump and exhaust front pipe, which could be very handily done at the same time as it's best to drop the front pipe to facilitate the sump job. Oh and I noticed a wee weep from the crankshaft front seal - it was dry as a bone last year when I did the timing belt. This car is only two years younger than Becky. The bodies on both vehicles are in very similar condition but Becky's running gear is considerably more corroded. Becky has about 20,000 miles more under her wheels than the Punto.

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Well you certainly are kept busy with the Fiats.
I'll have to leave you with my panda for a week and see what you can do with it!

Spent yesterday testing the cheap Chinese Webasto copy parking heater. Fired up first time and the remote control works.
Now I need to work out how to fit it.
Think it's going in an ammo box in the middle of the Land Rover second row floor.
I'm umbing it into the Land Rover fuel tank so I don't have to fanny about with an auxiliary tank.
Would like it to vent in a few directions so will have to work out some sort of tubing.

Yesterday was the day I got the gearbox out of the Land Rover and to my friend. As it was all disconnected it was a quick job in between showers. I now have to politely pester him to take a look at it as I'd like to get it back and in before the first chance if snow.

The panda seems to be running ok after the new oil, filter and fresh gearbox oil. I am getting a strange ticking from the front which may be steering or spring related but more running will hopefully help me diagnose possible solutions. They better be cheap as my car related 'spare' cash has gone for this month and October!

DaveMcT said:

It most likely needs a new clutch master cylinder. Mine was much the same before it was replaced.


At least the Punto parts are a reasonable cost. https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...kw=fiat+punto+clutch+master+cylinder&_sacat=0

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Thanks Dave, that's the way my thinking is headed too. Can't think what else would give these symptoms? Could it be something to do with the release fork?

You got me quite excited for a minute there with the cylinder prices but I think the one I need is a lot more expensive:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-PUN...h=item4d67a50fb1:g:SLgAAOSwoVNaDOPa#vi-ilComp

Had quite an interesting day with the Punto today but as I seem to be talking mostly about the Punto here, I'm going to move further comments over to the Punto 2012+ section.

I know the conversation has moved on but here are the Reliant's I have owned.

1978 Robin Mk1, the fastest of all, 3 figures plus and did 218,000 miles
chassis rotted out, if the internet and such were around at the time this one would still be with me.



1988 Rialto it was ok but was built during the first dying of the Reliant motor company when the engine casts were worn out etc gave me a lot of trouble sold on.



This one is a Jimp, based on a Reliant Kitten Chassis and built a s cheap works truck, only 120 were made, some of which were in kit form I rebuilt this one from the road up but sold it before on completion without driving it as I moved house.


Then there is the 1992 Mk2 Robin saloon in the background, a great little car one of my favourites, this is the one that got rammed and wiped out by an !!!XX on a dual carriageway. So I me took and passed my driving test (no instruction needed as I'd already been driving for 27 years! which led to the Panda.
The nearest is a 1998 MK2 Robin estate which is the one I still have and is a keeper. This is the refresh model until the Mk3 came out and production ended in 2001. 75mpg and 3 figure speeds




Just for Auld Jock, my Enfield



and of course the Panda

DaveMcT said:

It most likely needs a new clutch master cylinder. Mine was much the same before it was replaced.


At least the Punto parts are a reasonable cost. https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...kw=fiat+punto+clutch+master+cylinder&_sacat=0

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Well Dave, as time is getting shorter (my boy needs the car on Monday night) I splashed out on a M/cylinder from my local factor. I paid just over £50 all in which seems to be a fair price from what I can see on line.

This morning the weather is still good up here, although the rain is promised for later, so I made a start on the master cylinder. On the face of it the job looks simple enough and the Haynes manual is quite dismissive about it - implying that it's easy? Disconnect the supply pipe from the reservoir. disconnect the fluid line to the slave cylinder - quite awkward due to the air con compressor restricting access to the clip, but I got it done - inside the car now. Using a screwdriver to spring the retaining clip off the pushrod pin and withdraw the "clevis type" pin itself (fiddly) then the two bolts M8 which actually hold the cylinder in place (again fiddly but no big deal). So now it should be possible to simply withdraw the cylinder through the footwell.

But no! It's completely loose and "flopping about" but can't be withdrawn because there is a whopping great plastic molding in the way:



Those of you familiar with this master cylinder will know it has a large plastic flange:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-PUN...982918?hash=item4d8ea9edc6:g:XJgAAOSwl7pcgLrO

It's this flange which is stopping the cylinder being able to get past the plastic molding. I struggled with it for best part of 45 minutes. Finally gave up and popped along to catch the lads at Harrisons before they closed up (Saturday). Well, it seems that the later Punto's (this is a 2012) do have this big bit of plastic which the older ones don't. That explains why the Haynes manual's illustration looks different! On the earlier set up the cylinder does indeed just "pop out" after doing what I did. On the newer one this plastic molding has to be "got out of the way". The foreman was telling me they haven't done many of these ones yet and they are an absolute Pain in the Derriere! If I haven't got it done by Tuesday morning (Monday is a holiday) I'm just to take it down to them and they'll finish it off for me. What a bunch of great guys! However it would mean a couple of miles down the road with no working clutch! I've done this before on several occasions, in various cars, starting in 1st gear on the starter and judging shifts on the go, then nudge it into neutral before you need to stop, stopping the engine, back into first and ready on the ignition key to get going again. I once drove right across Edinburgh from the south side back home like this in my Cordoba, but would prefer not to have too!

So, if anyone knows how to do this cylinder removal I'd be eternally grateful if you'd enlighten me. Can't believe, after all the involved stuff I do so frequently that I've been stopped by this one! By the way, to get that molding off looks really complicated as it is BIG and extends all over the place under the dash area.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

The foreman was telling me they haven't done many of these ones yet and they are an absolute Pain in the Derriere! If I haven't got it done by Tuesday morning (Monday is a holiday) I'm just to take it down to them and they'll finish it off for me. What a bunch of great guys! However it would mean a couple of miles down the road with no working clutch!

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Well, shortly after returning from the garage, my daughter in law and her daughter turned up as they had been shopping up in town so came round for a cup of tea before the drive back home out into Midlothian. The young Miss wanted Grandad to take her to the local park playground (shutes, swings, etc) and I just love spending time with her so I got cleaned up and off we went. Consequently it was this morning before I got back into this master cylinder again.

After another half hour of trying to work out how this cylinder can be maneuvered past the protrusions of the mountings which are obstructing it's removal, I have to admit I'm defeated! I just can't see it! I've pushed, pulled, twisted, levered, sworn vehemently, sat back and tried the "intelligent approach", but I just can't get it out. I'm now feeling thoroughly depressed and somewhat "emasculated" - It's been years since anything has "stopped" me!

Anyway, I've screwed the two retaining bolts back in finger tight and reconnected the push rod and hydraulics. After bleeding I've managed to get enough of a pedal - just about - to be able to drive it down to the Garage where it'll be going first thing on Tuesday morning (Monday local holiday up here). I'm hoping, when I pick it up from them, that they might be kind enough to explain exactly how this is done. If so I'll post on here again. It's dry up here just now so I'm going to calm myself down with a bit of therapeutic gardening!

Can't really see enough from your pic, and not having been up under a Punto dash, could it be that loosening the nearest mountings of the plastic panel might allow it to be heaved up enough to release the cylinder?
I guess the garage will do something similar, or they might have just said 'remove the whole panel'.

portland_bill said:

I guess the garage will do something similar, or they might have just said 'remove the whole panel'.

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I think you may be right with this PB. It was only about 45 minutes from closing time and they were busy on Saturday when I went in, but the foreman and one of the mechanics came over because they were interested to hear how I'd got on with doing the selector seal. When I first mentioned about my tribulations with the M/Cyl various derogatory noises were uttered and it was mentioned that bits of the underdash need to be removed to gain access - unfortunately they were busily trying to finish up before knocking off time so I didn't get the chance to ask more in depth questions.

To be honest with you I'm feeling fed up with it and I'm really quite happy to hand it over to them, although, I suppose, it means I'll be blowing all the saving I made by doing the selector seal myself - Ah well, c'est la vie! - and, of course, my boy needs the car back to get to his work.

To be honest, I would have taken something sharp to that offending plastic.

I have a similar problem with the heater fan resistor on my wife's Panda. It's located at the top of the heater case hard up against the firewall. The inside is easy to see if you open the air recirc flap, but the business side looks impossible.

Access might be possible to someone with arms as long as a chimp. It's looking like the steering motor will have to be removed to get to it. Even then there's no certainty.

DaveMcT said:

To be honest, I would have taken something sharp to that offending plastic.

I have a similar problem with the heater fan resistor on my wife's Panda. It's located at the top of the heater case hard up against the firewall. The inside is easy to see if you open the air recirc flap, but the business side looks impossible.

Access might be possible to someone with arms as long as a chimp. It's looking like the steering motor will have to be removed to get to it. Even then there's no certainty.

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Thanks Dave, that's cheered me up a bit. Would have been even better if our printer hadn't decided to chuck in the towel! How do they make a reasonable quality printer for the same price as, or less than, a master cylinder? Oh, silly me, just look at the price of the inks!

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

How do they make a reasonable quality printer for the same price as, or less than, a master cylinder? Oh, silly me, just look at the price of the inks!

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Smug mode = ON
I've got an HP Laserjet 1018 (mono) bought in 2005 that's still going strong. It cost me £50 and I can get TWO 2000 page toner toner packs for under £10.

Smug mode = OFF

Getting back to the theme of this thread. My younger boy's Astra. Actually it wasn't strictly speaking "on" the driveway because that is already full of Panda and Punto. Also my ibiza is using up "my" bit of kerbside parking so the Astra (2007 1.6 estate) had to be parked with 2 wheels on the drop curb across the bottom of the run up to my house. So why was it paying us a visit? Well he (No2 son) rang earlier that day (this was Monday) to say he had a checkup at the family dentist and then a couple of customers to see in Leith - so he'd be down our area - about signage on their shop fronts. The car's making a "funny" noise, could I look at it?

I was having a wee tidy up in the front garden as he turned into the road end and could hear the noise from there! I'd thought it might be that he'd taken the pads through to the metal but it turned out to be a stone - quite a large one - trapped up the back of the N/S rear caliper rubbing against the inner part of the hub - haven't seen this in a long time. I couldn't shift it with the caliper in place but once removed the stone just about jumped out on it's own. Unfortunately the caliper was being uncooperative and refused to go back on until I'd wound it's piston back in a couple of turns! Luckily it did so nice and smoothly (unlike the Jazz last week which needed a new caliper) I checked both sides and the pads looked only about half worn so that is good.

Having sorted this so easily I realized I had at least an hour in hand before he was due to return so I decided to just give all the running gear a wee check over. All looking good, steering, suspension etc. O/S rear shocker just weeping slightly so will need to be done before next MOT. He has a friend with a garage who had done his tracking recently when he'd replaced the front tyres. They had found his lower front arm bushes to be in very poor condition (probably still the originals?) so he'd given permission to fit new ones before the tracking job. I decided to remove the front wheels so I could properly inspect the front pads etc. The wheel studs were done up so tightly I only just managed to slacken them with my 600 mm breaker bar and a great deal of effort. He would have had no chance of changing a puncture at the roadside if he had to. I thought this "thing" of over tightened wheel nuts was pretty much a thing of the past these days with most workshops torquing them? I think he's going to have a word with his pal about it.

Oh, by the way Dave, I went and bought another inkjet - cringe - Cannon Pixma MG5750 - special offer at Currys - Oh dear, will I never learn? Anyway I'm giving inkjets one last try. If it goes the same way as the two Epsons I've wrecked I think I'll try a mono laser next.

The Punto went into Harrisons at 8am this morning to get it's master cylinder done. (as mentioned above) He's taken it with just 2 days notice when they normally have around a two week lead in so I'm extremely grateful to them. They are working it around existing jobs, I may see it back last thing tonight - which would be good as my older boy is back from their summer hols and he's on an early shift in the morning so the car would be very useful - but more likely it's going to be sometime tomorrow. I arrived just as they were finishing a cup of tea and starting work and I was able to hand the keys to the chap who will actually be doing the job which was good as I could fill him in on exactly what I'd been trying. (this is why I much prefer small garages - can you imagine being able to talk to the mechanic working on your car in the main dealer?) As he headed off, with the keys, towards the Punto, I said "you'll have to fill me in on how this is done when I return to pick her up" - "Oh, don't know about that" he said, "Trade secret you know!" Don't know if he was joking or not? Suppose it doesn't really matter though as we've only the one Punto in the family and I'm not planning on doing anyone else's! Gona be interesting to see what he charges me at the end of the day?

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

it turned out to be a stone - quite a large one - trapped up the back of the N/S rear caliper rubbing against the inner part of the hub - haven't seen this in a long time.

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I seem to remember the early Metros suffered a lot with this, used to hook most stones out with a bit of hooked wire. I'm sure they introduced a modified shield. Like you, not seen, or heard this in a while.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Oh, by the way Dave, I went and bought another inkjet - cringe - Cannon Pixma MG5750 - special offer at Currys - Oh dear, will I never learn? Anyway I'm giving inkjets one last try. If it goes the same way as the two Epsons I've wrecked I think I'll try a mono laser next.

Click to expand...

My main printer is a mono laser, clever thing that prints both sides. When it reports toner low, there's a 'reset fix' involving a sequence of button presses that allows it to continue until pages come out with bits missing.
My inkjet is so rarely used, the ink is usually dried up, so expensive to buy new cartridges for each print job of a few pages.
Inkjets have an internal counter that eventually says 'end of life'. The cartridges sit on a pad, which drains into a tray inside. The ink of course dries, but the solids do not go away. The machine calculates when the tray is full of dried ink, and then stops working. It is possible to dismantle and clean it out, but the software needs a reset, which can be done at a cost, usually more than a new printer.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

"Oh, don't know about that" he said, "Trade secret you know!"

Click to expand...

Quite likely to involve brute force and possible breakage of unimportant edges, so whilst effective, not a good idea to share.

I bought an HP OfficeJet Pro 8725 for making marketing leaflets. It does dual sides and in full colour and includes a scanner and copier so its HUGE.

Its actually cheaper to run than a colour laser and double sided A4 is less cost than commercial who will only do full colour. = expensive. You do have to avoid switching on auto updates and do not buy the HP cartridge contract. When used to its design capacity the ink contract will cost a fortune and it wont let you use carts from any other source even HP.

The only way to do it cheaper would be a (second - hand) washing machine size commercial laser that uses bulk toner.

Well, I've got the Punto back. The foreman at the garage was very nice to me - he actually did the job himself - and was perfectly open with me as to what had to be done. It basically involves the partial removal of the pedal box (and maybe some other ancillary bits and pieces - I'm not so sure on this) Having attempted to remove the master cylinder I can vouch for the awkwardness of all this I certainly wouldn't like to try unless I absolutely had to. I'm not sure if you could safely cut away enough plastic to do the job otherwise and it's worth thinking about the fact that the bits you would have to cut away are what actually form the seal against the bulkhead to stop engine bay fumes entering the cabin!

The downside is that the original problem is little improved! Although there is a small improvement and the pedal has a slightly "harder" feel to it, it still goes a long way down before freeing the driven plate. This misdiagnosis is solely down to me as I specifically asked them to change the cylinder and supplied the new one. They are being very nice at the garage and told me not to beat myself up too much over this as their diagnosis, given the symptoms, would have been just the same.

I've been looking very carefully at what I can see and there's one very interesting observation - the release arm which the slave cylinder pushes against is now moving roughly the same distance as Becky's when the pedal is fully depressed. You may remember that when observed previously this arm was only moving about half the distance that Becky's does (although Becky is a Panda the release arm and clutch assembly are almost identical) so the fact that little improvement is experienced in clutch operation is very puzzling. I've been back and had a chat with the guys at the garage (and we must remember they specialize in Fiats so see a lot of them) The reasoning we've arrived at is that, with the new cylinder fitted and a noticeable improvement in stroke now being seen at the slave cylinder, it's been very likely that there was a master cylinder problem. The mystery though is, why, with plenty of movement on the release arm, is the clutch not freeing? We've jointly arrived at the conclusion that there must be a problem inside the bellhousing - release bearing (but it's not noisy) release arm (more likely perhaps) or something to do with the clutch cover, possibly damaged diaphragm fingers? Anyway it's agreed the box is going to have to come out for a look see. It's going to be a cruel coincidence if there are actually two separate issues here?

At this time the car is still drivable as long as you take care to fully depress the pedal with each gear change so my boy is using it to get to his work. He has a shift change coming up on the 30th which gives him 3 days off so the car goes back to the garage on Monday 30th - if it doesn't croak it before! He's got a bit of paper in his pocket with the breakdown number on it just in case! Multiple crossed fingers, toes and anything else you like, will be most appreciated.

Regards
Jock

Quite likely it needs a new clutch. On lots of these small Fiats, the clutch diaphragm spring wears, the fingers wear and the actual diaphragm gets stiff.
This sort of wear happen squite quickly if the driver regularly rests their foot on the clutch at stops, instead of selecting neutral and relaxing, but it still happens, just takes longer, if we are careful with it.

There have been issues with the release fork bearings in the gearbox casing wearing, allowing the fork to twist a little and lose some movement, but not had one reported on here recently, so maybe something for older boxes only.