Hello, new thread for a new topic.

Next part of my Panda's maintenance is the brake and steering fluids. Maybe then I'll be finished for a year or so?!


Saw a video online and reckon I can manage it with a friend, or my uncle if I need someone with particular experience at it.

On the 169 Panda, how is this process conducted? Any specialist tools or particular difficult aspects to be aware of?

Want to gather all the supplies and tools together before trying it

Looking forward to getting this done, thanks in advance to everyone taking the time to share their knowledge and experience on the brake fluid.

1.2 8v 2005 Dynamic if this helps

Do you have a good reason for changing the brake fluid?
If not, just leave well alone - no need to change unless brakes feel spongy or mileage is excessive. Don't make work when none is really needed. I know the handbook states - change every 60k but there really ain't no need.

Power steering fluid?
You'll be searching long and hard for the reservoir. Electric steering, he don't need no fluid, no sir!

Make sure brakefluid doesn't come in contact with your paint. Highly corrosive!
Make sure the fluidlevel stays high enough otherwise you'l trap new air in the system.
Use good fitting tools (8mm and 11mm IIRC)
Open during pressing the brake (or clutch)pedal. Close before pressing all the way.
Bleed till fresh fluid without airbubbles comes out.
Start with the wheel that has the longest line to it. (Rightrear on my LHD car Then LR, FR and FL)

gr J

Sweetsixteen said:

Do you have a good reason for changing the brake fluid?
If not, just leave well alone - no need to change unless brakes feel spongy or mileage is excessive. Don't make work when none is really needed. I know the handbook states - change every 60k but there really ain't no need.

Power steering fluid?
You'll be searching long and hard for the reservoir. Electric steering, he don't need no fluid, no sir!

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As stated before: It's a hygroscopic fluid. It attracts water and that lowers the boilingpoint. Water also causes corrosion. His is brown mud. New fluid is required every two years!

On a RHD car you'll need to do the clutch as well. PS is electric. No fluid.

gr J

Sweetsixteen said:

Do you have a good reason for changing the brake fluid?
If not, just leave well alone - no need to change unless brakes feel spongy or mileage is excessive. Don't make work when none is really needed. I know the handbook states - change every 60k but there really ain't no need.

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It's not often I disagree with your posts, but this is one such occasion.

Automotive hydraulic fluid is time limited both in service and in storage; the risk is that excess moisture in the fluid will cause corrosion of any steel and copper parts in the brake and clutch hydraulic systems. This corrosion puts tiny rust particles into the fluid (if the fluid is in any way blackened, that's why); these particles are abrasive and will quickly ruin the seals. It may become dangerously corrosive long before it loses its effectiveness as a hydraulic fluid.

Some brake parts are very expensive; brake fluid is cheap - you can do both the brake & clutch for less than a tenner. If I bought a secondhand car, it'd be the first job I'd do.

The condition of the fluid in the reservior is useless as a guide; the most contaminated fluid is invariably that in the body of the calipers and wheel cylinders - you'll often notice the first bit of fluid is noticeably darker when you bleed the brakes or clutch. To test it properly you need to draw a small sample from a brake nipple and test for both water and copper ions (copper is the first thing to corrode); realistically it'd be cheaper to just change it.

Maximum life is two years in service, or three years from the date of first manufacture (it'll be clearly marked on the container), whichever comes first. As you inevitably stir up any contamination when changing pads or shoes, I'd also recommend you at least flush new fluid through the relevant part of the system whenever these parts are changed, and preferably change the lot. In service means the date it was put into the car; if your new vehicle has been standing in a lot for awhile before sale, it could need changing 12 months from purchase.

The clutch fluid in my new, factory fresh 500 was shot after less than 18 months.

Always clamp the flexible hose before pushing back the calipers when changing pads - the last thing you want to do is risk forcing any contaminated fluid back through the brake lines. If it gets into the ABS modulator, it could be a four figure way to ruin your day. Never store opened containers of hydraulic fluid; some say that a half empty container opened in the morning will be useless by afternoon. It's one of the few things you should buy only when you need it, and only in the quantity you require. A litre should be sufficient to do both brake and clutch systems on the Panda.

Okay guys, so I'm doing my clutch and brake fluids.

Can you recommend one on eBay for each that you'd use on your own panda quality wise?

And a step by step process if it can be summed up easily?

Difficulty rating out of 5?

SB1500 said:

Okay guys, so I'm doing my clutch and brake fluids.

Can you recommend one on eBay for each that you'd use on your own panda quality wise?

And a step by step process if it can be summed up easily?

Difficulty rating out of 5?

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It's easier with two people - one to operate the pedal, one to turn the bleed nipple.

If you're doing it yourself, an interesting alternative is to use a vacuum bleeding kit - I've got this one; if you come across a secondhand one in reasonable condition, it's worth adding to the toolkit. Good for keeping the mess down, and it's useful for a couple of other jobs, like checking the cooling system for leaks.

Syphon (ASDA turkey baster for £1?) almost all the old fluid out of the reservoir before you start (but don't let any air into the system or it'll take longer to bleed properly). Then top up with fresh fluid and keep an eye on the level - make sure it doesn't get low enough to let in any of that dreaded air).

Some shady dealerships have been known to call it 'job done' at this point .

Have some water to hand to wash away any spilled fluid, particularly if it gets on the paintwork as it's quite an effective paint stripper.

Don't smoke (it's somewhat flammable) .

Personally I'd avoid ebay - this is one product you should buy off a shelf, so you can check the manufacturing date before purchase. If it's more than six months ago, shop elsewhere.

Just buy whatever reputable brand of the correct spec is cheapest at the factors; changing often is much more important than using the most expensive fluid. This is as good as any; about £6 for a litre if you shop around.

Once you get the hang of it, it's a straightforward job. Access is much easier if you jack up the car and remove the relevant roadwheel - I sometimes put the car on stands and take off all 4 when doing the brakes.

It's possible to do the clutch with the battery in place, but you have to work blind - a small camera helps to check you've attached the tools and bleed hose to the right bits on the slave cylinder.

You'll be quite a mechanic by the end of this; the skills you're learning now will last you a lifetime and save you a fortune.

Next month I'll change mine to superblue from ATE. Just because the boilingpoint is a little bit higher.
As said above I too change brakefluid as a first after buying a used car.
You'll be able to feel the difference.

gr J

Reckon I must bow to JR and A3 on this one, although I have never had much of a problem with brake fluid deterioration. Brake hose deterioration has been more of an issue, as I frequent farm tracks - and cow dung, while making an excellent underseal, is anathema to rubberised components!

A useful way of telling if the fluid has past its safe life is pedal feel. If you have any sponginess at the pedal, then it's time to change your fluid - unless you are absolutely certain that the sponginess is caused by another reason.

Sponginess can be caused by old brake fluid absorbing moisture, as has been said, but more likely in a hard-driven car by the fluid boiling in the calipers and trapping gas. These bubbles react with their surroundings, which is also one of the reasons why muddy-looking fluid is found in the calipers even when the fluid in the reservoir looks clear and clean.

Dot 4 has a higher boiling point than Dot 3, so use this when you change fluid.

Have to check, but I don't think DOT 3 is even approved for the Panda.
Any sponginess indicates that you are too late IMHO

gr J

A3jeroen said:

Have to check, but I don't think DOT 3 is even approved for the Panda.

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Fiat definitely specify DOT4 fluid for my 2010 1.2 Panda.

You don't see that much DOT3 fluid these days; it might be needed for some classic cars where the brake seals are incompatible with the borate additives used to raise the boiling point of DOT4 fluid.

In practice I suspect DOT3 would work just fine in a sensibly driven 1.2 if the fluid were changed regularly, but DOT4 is cheap enough, so there's no reason not to use what's specified by the manufacturer.

Instead of clamping the brake hose when pushing back the caliper piston an easier solution is to undo the bleed nipple on the caliper. This completely releases any pressure, and avoids any fluid - with its residue - returning back to the reservoir. Just collect the expelled fluid and discard it.
Personally, although this is regularly suggested, I would never clamp a brake hose. The integrity of the hose is your lifeline and any action that might weaken it is bad.

One-man bleeding is easily accomplished by using a length of clear plastic tube. Jam a ball bearing in one end of the tube (or a tight fitting bolt), cut a slit about 1cm long in the tube just above the ball bearing and push the other end onto the bleed nipple. If you immerse the free end in a jar with a little fluid in it you can pump the brakes without drawing in air, and you can easily see when the fluid is bubble-free.

Hi Guys, thanks for the tips and advice.

Phoned Fiat, my service manager guy from the time I got the Gold Service told me they definitely didn't top it up or replace it, but they certainly checked all those fluids and if they needed changed would have made that clear.

I kind of do believe him, as it's something extra he could easily have charged me for! So I think for now it'll be fine until the brakes are re-done through the course of time.