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Technical Key not recognised codes and intermittent starting problems

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Technical Key not recognised codes and intermittent starting problems

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Niminni

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This problem is driving me bonkers so if anyone has any advice, please let me know. I have a 2005 1.2 Panda which intermittently cranks over and takes a while to start whereas sometimes it'll start up first time no problem. This has been happening since before I had the battery replaced but has been worse since having it replaced. The garage are stumped and have tried everything from diagnostics to checking for battery drain, load testing the battery and cleaning sensors. An auto electrician plugged into the car and it came back with a key not recognised code. This problem occurs with both the remote key and spare and there seems to be no noticeable pattern concerning why it happens. It happens everytime I start the car although no fault lights are showing and the car run fine when it does start.

Do I need to get the keys or car recoded or is a diagnostic check by the Fiat dealer worth it first?

Any ideas you have would be great!
 
Hi

You might need the a Fiat dealer to update the EUC. I have had the same problem with a Fiat built Boxer van and it is in having the update right now.

It is going to cost £90 but if that puts it right it is money well spent. The boxer has only done 15,000 miles but time after time it would turn over and not start. 4 times I had to get it recovered.

Derek
 
I suspect it's extremely unlikely to be the keys, as you will have the code light come on if it were.

More likely to be a sensor, MAP or MAF. Not sure, but saw something about it in GP section recently so might be worth a look there (y)

I think Andy Monty mentioned having similar starting issues with his 1.2 GP a few winter back when it got cold.
 
Thank you both - I suspected it would be a case of updating the ECU - I'd rather pay for that first than go the whole hog and get the keys redone! Will plant the idea of the ECU when the car goes in on Wednesday and post the result.
 
sounds like a bad gear box to battery earth strap

or the tiny little cable on the ecu which grounds to the top of the engine


you can see the little back wire (in this case loose on top of the engine to the left of the ecu (thing with 2 black and red plugs)


a bad earth connection can cause low voltage issues


it getting worse after changing the battery points to this too as further disturbance of the battery cables can make it worse


cheap test take a jump lead

clip to the NEGATIVE battery terminal and clamp to a clean shiney bit of the engine and try and start the car
 
Don't assume that you will have a dashboard light if the key isn't recognised!

I had starting problems and called out breakdown. No warning lights on dasboard. They messed about and it finally started and re-started ok although he wasn't sure why. I turned off the engine, went inside for half an hour and lo and behold - engine wouldn't start!

Towed to garage (non-fiat but my regular garage), software indicated a key fault. One new remote later, never a problem again!
 
trevorwat said:
Don't assume that you will have a dashboard light if the key isn't recognised!

I had starting problems and called out breakdown. No warning lights on dasboard. They messed about and it finally started and re-started ok although he wasn't sure why. I turned off the engine, went inside for half an hour and lo and behold - engine wouldn't start!

Towed to garage (non-fiat but my regular garage), software indicated a key fault. One new remote later, never a problem again!
Click to expand...

If there is a fault present then the CODE light will be on. If a fault / glitch has happened in the past with the CODE system then a fault will be stored and pulled up then plugged into a computer, doesn't me that the fault is there currently though. The remote doesn't even control the immobiliser, its the capsule within it, so this it was more luck than judgement in your case.

How much did they charge out of interest? and How much did it cost to get the code for the car key from Fiat?
 
Glad it was my lucky day then! Car ended up at Fiat dealer for new key fob and coding. Original quote was £260ish. Actual bill was just over £200 (don't ask me why it cost less than the quote... I simply paid and ran before they told me they had made a mistake!)
 
I'm not certain but I think the key contains an RFID chip which communicates via a coil in the ignition switch. If the coil/connection is loose or misaligned then that could cause it to fail to read or mis-read he ID inside the key
 
To give the whole story with my key and the engine not starting... When the car was towed to my local garage, his software reckoned a key error but I had no dashboard warning lights.

I took my spare key to the garage and the engine started.

Swapped the spare key and used the remote, engine wouldn't start.

Ran the car on the spare key until I took it to Fiat main stealer for new remote and coding as explained earlier. At no time was there a dashboard warning light...

I have no idea why but that is what happened in my case - hence my earlier warning about not necessarily needing a warning light to have a key fault.
 
Hi,
Just updating my initial question - it was solved eventually by replacing the knock sensor.

However, I now have another intermittent cold start problem with no engine codes coming up and the leads, plugs, throttle body and idle speed valve all look fine. When warm, the engine starts first time but when cold, on some occasions, I could crank the engine continuously for 20 or 30 seconds and it won't catch, whether the clutch is depressed or not. On other occasions, it'll catch and then die before really igniting.

This has really stumped my mechanic who doesn't want to start replacing parts that otherwise look and behave as they should. Has anyone got any ideas? Does this sounds like a sensor issue?
 
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