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Old 13-07-2009   #31
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

I did post some pics of the KA arb on here a few months ago, I'm sure a quick search will find them.
My 100hp is a lot better than it was when it was new with regards to rear suspension harshness. Here in Shropshire we have some very rough roads, and 8k of driving over these has "softened" the initial harshness to a more than acceptable level, the only time the ride is "bad" is when braking or slowing down over rough surfaces (the front end tends to "crash". (the answer to this seems to be to keep your foot in!).
I'm not sure it would be worth changing the rear beam unless you had a very good reason to do so and you would defo need softer springs and get rid of the long bump stops to have the desired effect. (better ride same (or better) roll stiffness. I seems to me that fiat have used the bump stops as a cheaper arb substitute, the problem being that they stiffen the rear suspension when both wheels are moving upwards (ie going over a speed bump) which a arb wont do.
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Old 13-07-2009   #32
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Quote Originally Posted by 306maxi View Post
Yes and no. The ARB has the effect of a spring as well so while the springs on each wheel may be 30% softer the ARB will cancel some of that out.
Though it might be worth adding that an ARB will not affect spring stiffness when travelling in a straight line. This is why with an ARB you can have your cake and eat it, ie more comfortable in a straight line whilst reducing roll in the corners.
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Old 13-07-2009   #33
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Quote Originally Posted by edwell View Post
I did post some pics of the KA arb on here a few months ago, I'm sure a quick search will find them.
My 100hp is a lot better than it was when it was new with regards to rear suspension harshness. Here in Shropshire we have some very rough roads, and 8k of driving over these has "softened" the initial harshness to a more than acceptable level, the only time the ride is "bad" is when braking or slowing down over rough surfaces (the front end tends to "crash". (the answer to this seems to be to keep your foot in!).
I'm not sure it would be worth changing the rear beam unless you had a very good reason to do so and you would defo need softer springs and get rid of the long bump stops to have the desired effect. (better ride same (or better) roll stiffness. I seems to me that fiat have used the bump stops as a cheaper arb substitute, the problem being that they stiffen the rear suspension when both wheels are moving upwards (ie going over a speed bump) which a arb wont do.
Spot on.
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Old 13-07-2009   #34
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Quote Originally Posted by trackdayqueen View Post
Though it might be worth adding that an ARB will not affect spring stiffness when travelling in a straight line. This is why with an ARB you can have your cake and eat it, ie more comfortable in a straight line whilst reducing roll in the corners.
Nearly agree - you still get the stiffness of the spring on the other side from the bump mitigated by the twist on the arb, and the only possible other downside would be with squat on acceleration.
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Old 13-07-2009   #35
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Quote Originally Posted by babbo umbro View Post
Nearly agree - you still get the stiffness of the spring on the other side from the bump mitigated by the twist on the arb, and the only possible other downside would be with squat on acceleration.
Yup. But of course what TDQ says still stands I think a combination of what you're both saying would be about right
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Old 17-07-2009   #36
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Having looked under a Ka the other day and my 500 tonight methinks the torsion beams are different. Part numbers would of course confirm this....
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Old 17-07-2009   #37
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

I very much doubt Ford and Fiat would use the same part numbering system.
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Old 19-07-2009   #38
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Quote Originally Posted by HP. View Post
I very much doubt Ford and Fiat would use the same part numbering system.
Hence why you'd want to be comparing the 500c p/n's to the 500 ones
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Old 19-07-2009   #39
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Point conceded!
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Old 19-07-2009   #40
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Quote Originally Posted by HP. View Post
Point conceded!
Woohoo I win at the internets!

I love the Panda forum.... you guys are so much more chilled out than the 500 guys
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Old 22-07-2009   #41
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Quote Originally Posted by 306maxi View Post
Woohoo I win at the internets!

I love the Panda forum.... you guys are so much more chilled out than the 500 guys
Oh come on, us 500 guys are plenty chilled out.
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Old 24-07-2009   #42
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Quote Originally Posted by johnbethell4@tiscali.co.u View Post
Claude,
I,m in suffolk (just) if you haven't yet managed a test in a 100hp, welcome to have a go if you wish. John B
Thanks for the offer John, I'll try the local stealers once more and if they still don't have any I might take you up on your kind offer!

Btw I am about to check the Ford ECAT system to find the arb part numbers. Cheers Claude.
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Old 24-07-2009   #43
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Damn I have looked on ECAT (what the dealers use to find parts) and the roll bar isn't listed on there! Could just be they haven't updated it yet, as it's so new.

Anyway here's the other bits for what it's worth...

Ford Ka (all) bump stop 9S51-5K570-AA (9.81 each)
Ford Ka (all) rear spring 9S51-5560-AA (price not shown)
Ford Ka (all) rear shock 9S51-18125-AA (price not shown)

Cheers Claude
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Old 02-09-2009   #44
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Quote Originally Posted by trackdayqueen View Post
Claude, the weird thing about the 100hp is that it tends to lift an inside front wheel on cornering, which obviously have some fairly serious drawbacks.
I was thinking about this and ARBs today.
IMO the reason is that to make it stiff at the rear (to prevent understeer) they have relied on the bumpstops and as a result they're too hard and there isn't enough suspension travel. Cornering I think the travel and bumpstop compliance runs out very soon, the rear can't roll any more, so in response to the forces the front rolls instead and lifts the wheel.
A rear ARB, with softer shorter bumpstops seems like it might be a better way to keep the rear stiff enough to resist understeer.

I'm not a 100HP owner yet though it's just my kind of car. I like them, but it's this behaviour that has put me off buying one. On a fwd car the rear should lift (or at least go light) before the front as on 205s etc, and you don't lose traction that way. It makes me think the suspension isn't sorted really. So I'll be really interested to know the results if anyone tries an ARB.
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Old 04-09-2009   #45
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Re: 100HP Rear anti roll bar

Quote Originally Posted by 306maxi View Post
Having looked under a Ka the other day and my 500 tonight methinks the torsion beams are different. Part numbers would of course confirm this....
Just to confirm the torsion beam ARE different and the ARB would not be a retrofit item at least on the 500 hatchback. The 500 does not have the hole in the beam where the ARB goes in and I suspect the Panda will be very much the same but a picture would confirm.

Here is a picture of a 500c rear beam to illustrate
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