Register Login
iNETFX Domain Registration - COM/NET/ORG £6.50 a year!
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 18-08-2017   #121
Panda Wanda
 
kolza's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: YO11
Posts: 2,545
Thanks: 199
Trader Rating: 1
kolza has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

Quote Originally Posted by adamvarley View Post
We have had the CV spacers machined like you already to reduce driveshaft angle.

Off gear in boot? Sorry what do you mean? Burrs off the gear inside the boot?

Yes! Not necessarily uphill though. I had steering wheel wobble on the motorway, between 60 and 65 mph. Anything above or below these figures no wobble at all.

What did you find this was related to? Squatting off the rear? Why?
Appologies, it should read - ' A lot of travel/camping gear in the boot'
simply more weight in the back then normal.
Oil shocks loose they performance as you drive therefore Gas/oil are much better as the 'foaming' effect does not take place.
In my case rear end was sogging/ squating to much, front end was lifting so front wheels were 'dragged' inbord by the lower arm.

Is your lower arm OE size or already extended?
Your wobble looks like wheel releated so fine.
__________________
Sisley '89
Formula '91
W123 230CE '83 - project for sale 400
Subaru Legacy GT-B '98
kolza is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 21-08-2017   #122
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 579
Thanks: 63
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

Quote Originally Posted by kolza View Post
Appologies, it should read - ' A lot of travel/camping gear in the boot'
simply more weight in the back then normal.
Oil shocks loose they performance as you drive therefore Gas/oil are much better as the 'foaming' effect does not take place.
In my case rear end was sogging/ squating to much, front end was lifting so front wheels were 'dragged' inbord by the lower arm.

Is your lower arm OE size or already extended?
Your wobble looks like wheel releated so fine.

Jacob yep we have 295 long cranked 50mm lower arm with a 20mm forward centre the wheels can be turned freely when off the floor without any binding
So it's ????!!!! Un known reason .!
Unless it's a gear box problem time / mileage will
Tell there all ways the option of getting. The tripods machined to fit angular rotating bearings or tipods with curved faces Volvo use angular correction bearings !!!
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by Sjvarley; 21-08-2017 at 23:26.
Sjvarley is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-09-2017   #123
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 143
Thanks: 5
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

Changed the rear springs this weekend.

During full articulation the leafs would invert. And with the larger hangers sat almost flat in most situations.

So I had a pair of leafs modified. Re-curved to achieve an extra 25mm lift and also had an extra leaf to increase the stiffness.

However they seemed too stiff in comparison to the originals so removed one of the original leafs before installation.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0256.JPG
Views:	19
Size:	811.7 KB
ID:	183913
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0257.JPG
Views:	22
Size:	839.9 KB
ID:	183914
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0258.JPG
Views:	20
Size:	832.5 KB
ID:	183915
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0259.JPG
Views:	23
Size:	927.8 KB
ID:	183916

Overall results are great. Suspension slightly stiffer. Car stance is much improved and with no obvious loss off articulation.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0013.JPG
Views:	21
Size:	886.6 KB
ID:	183917
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0007.JPG
Views:	21
Size:	853.5 KB
ID:	183918
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0009.JPG
Views:	23
Size:	554.5 KB
ID:	183919
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0011.JPG
Views:	19
Size:	672.5 KB
ID:	183920
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0014.JPG
Views:	23
Size:	754.3 KB
ID:	183921
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0035.JPG
Views:	21
Size:	805.3 KB
ID:	183922

Also picked up these gems. Adds on a nice touch to the interior

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0030.JPG
Views:	19
Size:	665.7 KB
ID:	183923
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0033.JPG
Views:	21
Size:	515.5 KB
ID:	183924
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

adamvarley is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-09-2017   #124
Panda Wanda
 
kolza's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: YO11
Posts: 2,545
Thanks: 199
Trader Rating: 1
kolza has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

nice to have good articulation....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Susp flex2.JPG
Views:	23
Size:	47.8 KB
ID:	183941  
Likes Sjvarley, adamvarley liked this post
__________________
Sisley '89
Formula '91
W123 230CE '83 - project for sale 400
Subaru Legacy GT-B '98
kolza is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-09-2017   #125
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Grays, Essex
Posts: 115
Thanks: 10
Trader Rating: 0
lewisreeves has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

Love those seats Lads!
Likes adamvarley, Sjvarley liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

lewisreeves is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-10-2017   #126
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 143
Thanks: 5
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

Brian Update!

With Magenta project taking up vital garage space and the project being in full flow. I have had to settle with a semi permanent set up.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0488.JPG
Views:	11
Size:	873.3 KB
ID:	184739

Had the gearbox out this weekend.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0494.JPG
Views:	11
Size:	588.2 KB
ID:	184751
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0495.JPG
Views:	10
Size:	594.4 KB
ID:	184752

Damage report: cracking casting and flange, thankfully not past the bearing, so repairable with some careful TIG welding, although not entirely sure I have all of the fragments.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0496.JPG
Views:	12
Size:	619.0 KB
ID:	184740

Suspected cause: drive shaft too short, causing tripod bearing to come out the tripod housing. Can see suspect wear on the edges of the roller grooves

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0497.JPG
Views:	13
Size:	433.2 KB
ID:	184741
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0498.JPG
Views:	11
Size:	490.5 KB
ID:	184742
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0499.JPG
Views:	12
Size:	439.5 KB
ID:	184743

Seams to be no damage to the gearbox internally, although a full stripdown and rebuild is next to double check.

Following that, install gearbox, remove springs from struts and fully assess articulation and geometry.

Also noticed that the tie rod bracket mods were taking some stress. Cracks!

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0501.JPG
Views:	11
Size:	694.7 KB
ID:	184744
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0502.JPG
Views:	9
Size:	444.0 KB
ID:	184745
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0505.JPG
Views:	9
Size:	708.5 KB
ID:	184746
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0504.JPG
Views:	9
Size:	507.0 KB
ID:	184747

Newly modified brackets! Failure no longer imminent.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0507.JPG
Views:	10
Size:	613.0 KB
ID:	184748
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0508.JPG
Views:	9
Size:	486.3 KB
ID:	184749
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0509.JPG
Views:	10
Size:	438.6 KB
ID:	184750
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by adamvarley; 02-10-2017 at 18:10.
adamvarley is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2017   #127
PANDA!!
 
Freebo's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Selby
Posts: 3,979
Thanks: 147
Trader Rating: 0
Freebo is part of the official FF Events Team :)
Freebo has donated!
Ghost Ball Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

Glad you've found the cause and hope you're able to get it sorted! Has it damaged the 127 flange? Could it be worth getting one of the modified ones?
Freebo is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2017   #128
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 143
Thanks: 5
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

Quote Originally Posted by Freebo View Post
Glad you've found the cause and hope you're able to get it sorted! Has it damaged the 127 flange? Could it be worth getting one of the modified ones?


Nope, we are looking at the longer offside driveshaft here.

My dad manufactured a 'modified' flange out of both the 127 and stock flange so no problems there.
Likes Freebo liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

adamvarley is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2017   #129
PANDA!!
 
Freebo's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Selby
Posts: 3,979
Thanks: 147
Trader Rating: 0
Freebo is part of the official FF Events Team :)
Freebo has donated!
Ghost Ball Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

Quote Originally Posted by adamvarley View Post
Nope, we are looking at the longer offside driveshaft here.

My dad manufactured a 'modified' flange out of both the 127 and stock flange so no problems there.
Thats good to know, Where would you get a longer driveshaft out of interest? Trial and error from another car or perhaps the custom route?
Freebo is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2017   #130
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 143
Thanks: 5
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

Quote Originally Posted by Freebo View Post
Thats good to know, Where would you get a longer driveshaft out of interest? Trial and error from another car or perhaps the custom route?


Haven't actually started looking yet but hopefully there is another fiat driveshaft which is 15mm longer somewhere.

We have already installed the Uno driveshaft on the nearside as has Jacob.

The other option is an additional spacer behind the wheel bearing (providing there is sufficient thread available for the locknut, and the increased driveshaft angle does not cause gearbox clearance issues as with the nearside stock).

Lowering the engine further is a possibility, although kind of defeats the point of the build

The more expensive route of a custom driveshaft is probably a last resort.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

adamvarley is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-10-2017   #131
Panda Wanda
 
kolza's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: YO11
Posts: 2,545
Thanks: 199
Trader Rating: 1
kolza has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

I can measure UNO o/s shaft tommorow, or actually compare it with panda one as still have the outer cv on.
Likes adamvarley liked this post
__________________
Sisley '89
Formula '91
W123 230CE '83 - project for sale 400
Subaru Legacy GT-B '98
kolza is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-10-2017   #132
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 143
Thanks: 5
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

Gearbox disassembly and inspection results.

Used a recently replaced mattress to keep order to everything ( not to self: do not lean on mattress), proved very useful for labelling too.

Please be reassured the mattress was white and stain free when I started

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0527.JPG
Views:	10
Size:	494.7 KB
ID:	184788

So after I removed the nearside driveshaft to drive Brian out of the quarry in RWD. I forgot to reinstall the flange which holds the differential taper bearing in place.

I now realise what the crunching sound was as I got out of the quarry and took the load off the box.

The entire differential had slipped out of position causing the 4x4 pinion and bevel to misalign:

4x4 drive pinion damage,
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0521.JPG
Views:	10
Size:	523.3 KB
ID:	184789
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0522.JPG
Views:	9
Size:	537.3 KB
ID:	184790

4x4 bevel damage,
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0526.JPG
Views:	10
Size:	471.4 KB
ID:	184792
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0524.JPG
Views:	9
Size:	409.1 KB
ID:	184791
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0525.JPG
Views:	7
Size:	383.0 KB
ID:	184793

Fortunately the is no visible damage to the final drive gears. And all other gears and bearings seem perfect.

Next jobs, replace contents into new bell housing casting. Replace 4x4 pinion/bevel drive. Investigate final drive ratio and 1st gear ratio change.

Any useful links or previous work on 1st gear change?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

adamvarley is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-10-2017   #133
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 143
Thanks: 5
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

Figured I'd strip down the spare Punto MK1 gearbox to see if anything could be used.

Initially looked promising as the centre distance between the input shaft and main shaft looked to be identical to the panda centre distances

Punto MK1:
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0537.JPG
Views:	8
Size:	626.3 KB
ID:	184801
Panda MK2 5 Speed (Brain's):
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0538.JPG
Views:	9
Size:	633.4 KB
ID:	184802

5th gear looked like an oppurtunity to swap over, higher ratio, faster motorway driving! Although sadly, synchromeshes are different types and cannot be swapped over due to distance of selector rod from input shaft; leading to different length selector forks.

Additionally, Pandas 5th gear spline, is different to the Punto 5th gear spline, therefore Panda 5th gear cannot be used on Punto main shaft meaning 1st gear cannot be swapped either.

For reference; 5th gear components: Top 5th gear driven, middle 5th gear driving, bottom synchromesh and selector forks. Panda MK2 left and Punto MK1 components right.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0539.JPG
Views:	10
Size:	683.7 KB
ID:	184803
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0540.JPG
Views:	8
Size:	595.6 KB
ID:	184804
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0542.JPG
Views:	8
Size:	486.9 KB
ID:	184805

Punto final drive also useless as it looks to be pressed onto differential. Not bolted like Panda.

Punto MK1
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0533.JPG
Views:	7
Size:	576.0 KB
ID:	184807
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0534.JPG
Views:	7
Size:	571.1 KB
ID:	184808

Panda MK2 4x4
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0535.JPG
Views:	9
Size:	472.3 KB
ID:	184809
Likes AndyPanda4x4 liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by adamvarley; 04-10-2017 at 13:49.
adamvarley is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-10-2017   #134
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 579
Thanks: 63
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

Quote Originally Posted by kolza View Post
I can measure UNO o/s shaft tommorow, or actually compare it with panda one as still have the outer cv on.

Looking on the parts list 815 mm panda 127 fiorino 20 teeth
Uno 868 mm (53 mm longer )
I guess it should be 15-25 mm
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Sjvarley is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-10-2017   #135
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,832
Thanks: 230
Trader Rating: 0
panda1408 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Brian the BFP (Big Friendly Panda)- 1988 Sisley 4X4

A while ago I found a chart on Google that listed the different gear ratios used in the C501 type box across all the different models, can't seem to find it now but if I remember correctly the highest 5th and lowest 1st were the ones used in the Panda. So no easy swapping around and you would be into the realms of custom made gears as we discussed previously.
Likes Sjvarley liked this post
__________________
1988 Panda 4x4 Sisley
1982 Panda 45
panda1408 is online now Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Panda (Classic) 1988 Fiat Panda 4x4 Sisley - 895 - Macclesfield a73uk Auction Watch 4 18-12-2015 15:38
Panda (Classic) 1988 4x4 Sisley panda1408 Members Motors 180 27-06-2014 19:12
(G) Panda 4X4 owners friendly? euroben Panda 12 31-05-2012 17:57
Fair asking price for 1988 4 x 4 panda sisley ng4157 Lets Talk FIAT 4 17-01-2009 13:57