Hi all. I've got a tow bar on the 1000CL, but am planning to move it on to the 1108cc Selecta and use it for towing.

Now I've read all the technical stuff and it says its 400kg Towable weight. Is this right?

Its just that I've seen a Panda 4x4 Towing another Panda with a tow bar, and was wondering if the fact that I've got a slightly bigger engine will make any difference? I know its an auto so don't want to damage the box.

Also whats the law on towing? Have you got to take a extra test or somthing, people at college have been saying that you have, but I think they're getting confused with their agricultural trailers.

Just I might be taken the Panda to France in the summer, and it will be well laden on the way back.

Thanks in advanced. Jon.

Hi Jon.

Can't help you on towing with the Selecta but we towed my brothers Rover 200 in the current Mandapanda 1000CLX. Slowly, and mainly in second - but we got my brothers old wreck back home for him.

I'm not aware of any extra test you have to take - I guess your mates are trying to pull yer leg

Hope this helps.

John

If you look at this link it gives you a little more info on towing with a car:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073

Basically if I'm reading this right we are allowed to tow upto 750 kg on just our normal B category licence, though to tow over 750 kg you would need to take a test to extend the licence to the B+E category licence.

So I think in our Pandas we are sufficiently covered for most things we'd try to tow

Jon

Hi, I've had about seven pandas over the years, and I've towed plenty of things, such as a fish and chip trailer and various cars the biggest being a vw passat estate, I've always liked pandas because of their versatility, I used to use them for lightweight motorcycle transport (bantams, tiger cubs etc), I used to remove the rear seat and the front passenger seat and replace it with a seat runner to tie the bike down with, also because the passenger door is so easy to remove, I'd take this off and slot the bike in from there and then bolt the door back on. The good thing about Pandas is economy and cheapness but I've noticed that the prices are rising, in Italy for some reason they always been pricey.
I've got a Multipla jtd now and it's great !

Welsh Jon said:

If you look at this link it gives you a little more info on towing with a car:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073

Basically if I'm reading this right we are allowed to tow upto 750 kg on just our normal B category licence, though to tow over 750 kg you would need to take a test to extend the licence to the B+E category licence.

So I think in our Pandas we are sufficiently covered for most things we'd try to tow

Jon

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ahh but this gets confusing you can tow a trailer up to 750kg OR or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

so say your panda was 1200kg ULW and the trailer was 1199kg mam you'd be legal....

me and huw have towed pandas with panda LOADS of times with ropes and mainly solid bars over huge distances !
its works fine.

i have recently bought a towing A frame for less stress and not needing a steering person.

with that iv towed
more pandas
a fiat X19

so yes all towing has been fine with
a suzuki sj
pandas
x19

(except the time with the A frame when the towed cars front wheel fell off)
still a mistery !! made us laugh though. luckily wasnt near traffic and was only going about 30-35mph.

have fun !!

Xsisley said:

i have recently bought a towing A frame for less stress and not needing a steering person.

Click to expand...

Word of warning. A frames are illegal unless you are a registered breakdown recoverer. I think it's to do with the unbraked weight. That said, i won't tell anyone... tell anyone what?....

Unbraked weight ... glad you mentioned that, I thought the only requirement was that the car being towed had to be MOT'd (because all four wheels are still touching the ground). Oh and youd probably need a trailer set of lights for the back aswell.

i wouldnt trust that powder clutch to pull more than a few bags of garden rubbish in a very small trailer

dave said:

i wouldnt trust that powder clutch to pull more than a few bags of garden rubbish in a very small trailer

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I agree, I wouldn't want to tow much with a Panda either. I towed friends Volvo 240 to a garage once and that was really quite unpleasant.

Andy Monty said:

ahh but this gets confusing you can tow a trailer up to 750kg OR or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

so say your panda was 1200kg ULW and the trailer was 1199kg mam you'd be legal....

Click to expand...

Not always true anymore as it now depends on when cat B test was passed. The law relating to what you can and cannot tow on a normal car licence depends on when you passed your test. The rules since 1/1/1997 are very different and much tighter. People who gained cat B before then are limited only by the rules governing how much any vehicle can tow. Those gaining cat B since the change (will include the OP) have much tighter driver limits and would need to take B+E for anything larger.

Full definitions are available at http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022521

As for the original question, I'd be very hesitant at towing 400kg with a Selecta. It will add a massive strain to the clutch.

There are lots of threads on this subject, there is one thing thats clear and that's how unclear the law is on towing....It used to be simple there is a train weight stamped on the chassis plate and you could tow up to that weight, then if what you were towing was over 750kg it had to be braked and if under then it didn't need braked.

It seems now that new cars (and I don't know from what age) have a braked and unbraked limit which is stamped in the log book (V5) of my new panda but this is not stamped on the Sisley. I have to therefore assume that the cars that have this stamped on the V5 are under different construction and use regs than those that don't.

I have spoken to our road policing unit (traffic) many times on the subject as Willie is the king of the dolly (believe me, see below) and as far as they were concerned Willies train weight is 2100kg (stamped on the vin plate) so he could legally tow up to 1300kg as long as if above 750kg the trailer/dolly was braked.

Some pics for your ammusement......

My boat weighs 2.1 tonne but only moved it so I could clean where it normally sits (wasn't taken onto the road before you point n shout)

Barchetta towed from London to Cumbria

Oops

MK1 panda towed from Newcastle to the docks at stranrear

Daughters Punto, had to recover it after a crash

Italia 90 towed from Bournemouth to Gainsborough to Cumbria 500+mles

Tipo taken from Manchester to Cumbria as a favor

Ivor towed from London to Cumbria and recently from Cumbria to Essex

Now retired from towing cars he has his own little trailer that the garage owner calls my little artic

Alan.D said:

There are lots of threads on this subject, there is one thing thats clear and that's how unclear the law is on towing....

Click to expand...

And even more so since there are now different regs for drivers depending when they passed their car test.

It's not just towing though, is it. The whole of motoring law in the UK could do with tidying up a bit. All that's happened as time has gone on is that bits have been added making it ever more complicated to the point of obsurdity in many cases.

I certainly won't disagree

I have done the B+E test and you have to do your driving test again but with a trailer on the back. Your allowed to tow without the B+E <750Kg unbraked but if the trailer has brakes your not allowed to tow.

Thanks for all the replys. Cleared a few things up for me.

Jon.

Ju. said:

Your allowed to tow without the B+E <750Kg unbraked but if the trailer has brakes your not allowed to tow.

Click to expand...

wrong read my above post... I went into this with the technical/legal advice line of the camping and caravaning club..

along with any trailer over 750kg any trailer over half the weight of the car must be braked

The fact the trailer has brakes has nothing to do with the B+E regs:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073


Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

For example:

* a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

Whereas

* the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
* Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold.

Towing caravans

As for towing caravans, existing general guidance recommends that the laden weight of the caravan does not exceed 85% of the unladen weight of the car. In the majority of cases, caravans and small trailers towed by cars should be within the new category B threshold.

An exemption from the driver licensing trailer limit allows a category B licence holder to tow a broken down vehicle from a position where it would otherwise cause danger or obstruction to other road users.

By passing a category B test national categories F (tractor), K (pedestrian controlled vehicle) and P (moped) continue to be added automatically.
Category B+E: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM towing trailers over 750kgs MAM

Category B+E allows vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM to be combined with trailers in excess of 750kgs MAM. In order to gain this entitlement new category B licence holders have to pass a further practical test for category B+E. There is no category B+E theory test. For driver licensing purposes there are no vehicle/trailer weight ratio limits for category B+E.

How about a VW type 2 camper for 6 miles behind a Fiat 126 in 1991. Wish I had the pictures. The bloke bet a fish and chip supper against recovering his vehicle home, if we could do it. Stupid did it, bless her. Top speed 21mph. All the way in second. No speed but bags of torque, those old air cooleds.

I reckon the bobbies wouldn't have had a clue what the offence was back then, but I am sure they would have known there was one!

Have a look at my signature pic below and this shows what she used to pull regularly.