last night i saw a TV ad for the new 2012 range of Chrysler cars, I thought to myself that they all looked very familiar.

having spent a bit of time a few days ago looking at at the Lancia Website I realized that they are the exact same line up of cars, they even cary the same model names with the exception of the Chrysler 300c which is branded by lancia as the Thema.

so getting to the point, lancia have a legendary reputation for the cars they've made, yes they may have been rust buckets but they won a lot of rallies and built some pretty iconic cars.

I have to wonder the reasons for the branding of the lancia line up as Chrysler. are fiat so embarrassed by what they have done to the lancia name (for the uk at least) that they don't want to tarnish the history of Lancia with this Americanized line up or is it more a case of they are too worried that the old reputation of 'rust bucket' might come back to haunt them and effect the sale of the Lancia Models.

Chrysler in the UK doesn't exactly have a great reputation so I cant see any good reason to not bring back the lancia name.
my final theory is its a cost thing as they already have a network of chrysler dealerships so rebranding and marketing would cost a fortune.

What are peoples thoughts? would you like to see the Lancia name back in the UK? would you be more inclined to buy a lancia over a chrysler or would you be put off by a 20year old reputation?

for your comparison
http://www.chrysler.co.uk/
http://www.lancia.com/

Erm, you've answered your own question. It's all down to economics......

I was under the impression that they did some sort of exercise to see what people would prefer & in the UK & Ireland, Chrysler had a more positive reaction. In Europe where Lancia hasn't disappeared it came off more favourable. Im not convinced this exercise actually happened & if it did i have no idea who they asked.

As already hinted, i suspect most of the decision was based on economics & the cost of rebranding dealerships, plus the hostility from some dealers regarding losing the Chrysler name in favour of Lancia.

Personally i'd prefer the cars had the Lancia badge, i think it has more heritage and alot more class. The fact Lancia's used to rust means bug*er all to me as that was the 70s & 80s and we're a long way from there. Fiat's also used to be shoddy back then but are alot better now, so it's irrelevant as the people who are likely to buy one and come back for many more will be people who are young enough not to remember the bad days. Even those who can will most likely not care anymore & if they do, re-badging as Chrysler won't make a jot of difference.

I'd only want a Delta & Ypsilon anyway though. The 300C & Grand Voyager don't appeal. That said, i do think the Lancia models work fairly well as Chrysler's and vice versa. The 'look' was already very similar but it's just not practical to have both badges in all countries, sadly.

for the lancia name to work in the uk they would need better cars than them ones.

Chryslers used to rust too

dave said:

for the lancia name to work in the uk they would need better cars than them ones.

Chryslers used to rust too

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Totally agree that if they were relaunching the Lancia name in the UK they'd have to come-up with something like the 500 to get them recognised. A really good Delta would be the obvious choice but i suppose Fiat Group would rather push Abarth & Alfa down the 'sporty' route and leave Lancia/Chrysler to do luxury.

I don't think the current Delta is that bad. With the exception of the rear quarter which seems too big i like the styling. It's no class leader but it's arrived in the UK at least 4 years after launch which hasn't helped. It does do a fairly good job of living upto the 'luxury' idea though, and the space is very decent in the back.

What i can't work out is why they made a half-arsed effort on the Ypsilon. It looks ok but not as 'right' as the Delta, but apparantly it drives pretty badly and the worst thing for me was the decision to use the TwinAir engine rather than the 1.4 16v Petrol or a bigger Multi-Air. It's meant to be luxury in a small package, so sticking an (albeit fun) raucous little TwinAir under the bonnet seems completely daft, particularly as the only other petrol on offer is the 1.2, which is fairly quiet but not that quick. They really need a bigger petrol engine. Keener pricing (in-line with the current VAT Free prices) would also get people through the doors. As would a decent stock of cars at the dealerships - our local one had one Ypsilon in the showroom and a Delta on the grass outside when i had a look on Thursday. It was just a sea of Jeep's. No good to a potential Delta/Ypsilon customer.

The full-range advert is definately a good idea and just what i thought they should do.

4wd versions of the punto abarth badged as Lancia might work

I'm afraid the motoring press in this country has a lot to answer for. Lancia, like other Italian makers were a triumph of style over substance for decades. They were innovative and stylish; the first production V4 was a Lancia and there were other firsts (might be wrong with some of these, but bear with me here) the 5 speed gearbox, V6 engine; virtually every 6 cylinder petrol engine used today is of V configuration. I'm also sure they made the first production monocoque and independent suspension.

The press will also tell us that a Delta (as well as Alfas) are simply Bravos in drag. Conversely, the press also tells us that Seats and Skodas use VW components which is a good thing, while the supposedly upmarket Alfas and Lancias use "down-market" FIAT components.

The FIAT group also need to bite the bullet and ditch (or properly refine) the electric power steering and look at what VW and Ford are doing to the undersides of their cars. As I posted elsewhere, I used a VW Golf Bluemotion for a cross country drive recently and I have to say it was almost effortless to drive fast(ish) in the dark and sub-zero temperatures, overall extremely competent, but I felt no emotional attachment to it like I did with a Giulietta a couple of months ago.

Unfortunately not everybody thinks like I (or most on here) do. One theme that always comes through in a road test of a FIAT is handling, or lack of it. I can't help thinking that if they don't get a grip on this then they're doomed. Already the likes of Kia, Hyundai and Chevrolet, alright then Daewoo are getting better results in road tests than FIATs.

Get it sorted blokes or we'll all be driving round in Chinese motors.

One of the French car magazines that I read said the American Lancias sold in Europe were 100% American and really had nothing at all to do with Lancias of the past. In other words, the only modification to the cars compared to the US versions was the badge. They went on to say that if you love American cars, you'll love these Lancias as no Lancia genetic material had been added to the Chrysler origins.

I do not think this bodes well for the brand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only Italian Lancias left now are the Musa (Fiat Idea) and the Ypsilion (Ugly Fiat Punto 3). One buys an Italian car for the style, the way it drives and the way it performs. These American Lancias may go fast in a straight line, but that's as far as it goes. I think the Chrysler badge should be kept in Europe for the US imports as it's well known and the Voyager is the top US minivan (MPV). As for Lancia, I think it's time to say good bye as the last two survivors are a rather poor reflection on this once-proud make.
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I'd like to buy a Lancia. But it would have to be at least as good as a 500 Abarth SS to merit the name.

raton_laveur said:

One of the French car magazines that I read said the American Lancias sold in Europe were 100% American

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i thought they had fiat/lancia engines?

raton_laveur said:

One of the French car magazines that I read said the American Lancias sold in Europe were 100% American and really had nothing at all to do with Lancias of the past. In other words, the only modification to the cars compared to the US versions was the badge.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only Italian Lancias left now are the Musa (Fiat Idea) and the Ypsilion (Ugly Fiat Punto 3)

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dave said:

i thought they had fiat/lancia engines?

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I think it's true that the 300C/Thema and Grand Voyager which originate as Chryslers are all-American. The 300C might use a Fiat Group engine when it arrives this Summer but i don't know for sure. The Jeep Grand Cherokee uses a new large Fiat Diesel so i guess it's possible. They will use Fiat engines eventually i'm sure.

The only Lancia's/Chryslers which are actually Italian are the Ypsillon (Panda platform) and Delta (Bravo platform). The Musa (Fiat Idea) is still available in Europe but not in the UK. These 3 will all use familiar Fiat Group engines. Basically Lancia & Chrysler are a 50/50 split of both brands at the moment. How they'll go in future, who knows, but the Cherokee got praise for its engine (Fiat) and critisised for its gearbox (non-Fiat) so Fiat might have a better handle of it than some think.

You know, a Lancia Hemi might be fun.

Once upon a time, Chrysler produced good cars (at least, good by American standards).

dave said:

i thought they had fiat/lancia engines?

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The 6 cylinder diesel engines are made by VM Motori SpA in Italy. VM has been in the GM family for the past several years.

http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/00/01/index.jsp

The 630 in in the US-built Lancia models. I believe the 428 is offered in some Fiat Ducatos.

JTD_Liam said:

I think it's true that the 300C/Thema and Grand Voyager which originate as Chryslers are all-American. The 300C might use a Fiat Group engine when it arrives this Summer but i don't know for sure. The Jeep Grand Cherokee uses a new large Fiat Diesel so i guess it's possible. They will use Fiat engines eventually i'm sure.

The only Lancia's/Chryslers which are actually Italian are the Ypsillon (Panda platform) and Delta (Bravo platform). The Musa (Fiat Idea) is still available in Europe but not in the UK. These 3 will all use familiar Fiat Group engines. Basically Lancia & Chrysler are a 50/50 split of both brands at the moment. How they'll go in future, who knows, but the Cherokee got praise for its engine (Fiat) and critisised for its gearbox (non-Fiat) so Fiat might have a better handle of it than some think.

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You're right, I forgot about the Delta.

raton_laveur said:

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You're right, I forgot about the Delta.

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They've been showing a new Ypsilon advert on TV here over the last couple of days, seen it 3 times so far including just before Emmerdale, which i'd assume is a pretty important slot in terms of advertising. Impressed.

Also seen the Jeep Grand Cherokee advert twice over the last couple of days too. Maybe Fiat Marketting are learning :worship:

The present Ypsilon looks, at least from the front, like a half size PT Cruiser. The reviews I've seen are less than flattering. Although it's got 5 doors for the fist time, that's not going to save it from a cruel fate.

I would welcome back Lancia with open arms!

The legacy of the Stratos will always have high accolades in ones opinion! I would do anything to see Lancia bring back the Fun times in the UK With the likes of the Delta Intergrale and Stratos

Chrysler already have a foothold in the country By Owning Texaco so they have a platform to develop on so why not try and push it further

I noticed something interesting today while driving home from the supermarket, passing one of the dealerships belonging to the local company that sells Fiat and alfa romeo I see that they now sell Chrysler as well. Where as the chrysler dealership which used to belong to the same group that sell renault volvo among others have recently moved their volvo dealership into the old chrysler showrooms and extended, so the argument of existing network of dealerships in this case at least, has gone out the window, as local fiat dealerships take over selling chrysler cars.

I agree with some of the comments above if the current line up of cars were branded fiat I wouldn't think anything of it but they are no where near good enough for the Lancia badge given the Lancia legacy (in my view anyway) some sort of rear wheel drive monster is really needed to bring the legend back to the UK's shores,

its all a bit strange as on some levels these Chrysler cars are pitched into the same markets as the Fiat punto, alfa mito, these two cars a pretty close in their class now but the Ypsilon is supposed to be more classy than a punto but lacks the style and finesse of the alfa, and lacks the heritage of both brands,

So what is the point in the Chrysler brand for fiat in the UK? seems to me the only thing they have that neither fiat or Alfa have is the Voyager as a large people carrier, the nearest thing in size would be a mini bus?

JTD_Liam said:

What i can't work out is why they made a half-arsed effort on the Ypsilon

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Liam, the Ypsilon is (as you know) based and powered around the 500 but has 4 doors so to many potential buyers that is very important especially with a young family etc. The build quality of the interior is better than a 500 however I don't get those rear lights:yuck:

The Beard said:

we'll all be driving round in Chinese motors.

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Thats a very real possibility wether we like it or not, i'm quite sure the Chinese could sell 'copycat' models for a fraction of the price.

AndyRKett said:

I noticed something interesting today while driving home from the supermarket, passing one of the dealerships belonging to the local company that sells Fiat and alfa romeo I see that they now sell Chrysler as well. Where as the chrysler dealership which used to belong to the same group that sell renault volvo among others have recently moved their volvo dealership into the old chrysler showrooms and extended, so the argument of existing network of dealerships in this case at least, has gone out the window, as local fiat dealerships take over selling chrysler cars.

So what is the point in the Chrysler brand for fiat in the UK?

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Chrysler/Jeep are selling very well in the UK, it also makes sense for some Fiat dealerships to incorporate them as a lot of the tooling, engines, technology will be shared between the brands.

I agree with some of the comments above if the current line up of cars were branded fiat

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Agree'd People need to leave the old Stereotype of Fiat e.g. Fix It Again Tommorow with the past the newer Fiats past the mk1 punto are fantastic fun, economical and cheap

So its all about restoring the brand awareness like what is being done with Skoda then people will realise how great the Fiat 500 Abarth is and so on