littlepip17 said:

just be glad you dident buy a ford that whould have long expired anything past 6500 rpm

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isnt it the st or something else that ford has made that will go at maximum revs for approx 150,000 miles without going wrong, as long as everything else is in perfect order or something

edit: cant find the website i read it from now, may be something totally wrong and just a rumour i hear but if someone else has heard it then let me know :nutter:

washinpowder said:

isnt it the st or something else that ford has made that will go at maximum revs for approx 150,000 miles without going wrong, as long as everything else is in perfect order or something

edit: cant find the website i read it from now, may be something totally wrong and just a rumour i hear but if someone else has heard it then let me know :nutter:

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I believe those engines also have a cam chain instead of a cam belt, so something else less likely to break!

Thank you all for your posts.

I haven't driven it since driving it back from the dearl on Saturday.

It's going in tomorrow morning first thing, I won't take the car back untill it's running properly.

And to clarify I was in 2nd and went upto 3rd.

The main thing I noticed was the rev counter, as normally they're really responsive arn't they?

Anyone with a 1.4 16V when you slightly touch the gas the needle smoothly jumps, then when you take your foot off it jumps down smoothly - not goes as slow as the speedo??

It had skipped two notches on the cam belt (Essential it stays put), massive error on design because no matter what load / stress there should be enough tension for it to never slip!

Since it slipped it's not been right, still isn't right. Engine managment wires are exposed on the connection, also a beeping / clicking sound of a solenoid going off before engine starts and whilst enegine is off.

Exhuast blows / pops. Am not happy. It's going back first thing tomorrow.

Found this on another forum... am really not very happy at all.

"I'm capable of doing it myself and whilst It's OK getting it done on the cheap what happens if it goes tits up and snaps for being over tightened, slips a few teeth and puts some holes in your pistons and bends say 16 valves? Not a cheap job anymore is it and for £193 I don't like to take the chance with something I rely on every day."

I thought it cost more than £193 to change a cam belt.....thought it was more like £450..?

Superboy said:

I thought it cost more than £193 to change a cam belt.....thought it was more like £450..?

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£450 sounds like a 5 pot price

cam belt shouldnt have slipped on a new engine. it clearly wasnt tensioned correctly. jumping two teeth could've caused valve damage, but i dont know the engine well enough to say for sure.

Cambelt shouldn't jump. Period.
Fuel cut at the rev limiter is (according to Coupe Technical manual) retardation of the ignition at the soft limit (about 6800 rpm I think on the Coupe 20VT), then fuel cut at the hard limit (7013 rpm on the 20VT).
So it retards the ignition rather than leaning the mixture out to start with.
H

Whats that mean?:idea:

nothing you need to worry about

Not your fault if the engine has broken something. A lot of sports engine builders will put the rebuilt engine in the car fill it with running in oil run at full throttle until revs start to increase indicating the rings have seated, engine off and the running in oil and the swarf come out, new filter, whatever oil you are going to run on go in and drive away from the shop ready to race. If you had a few hundred miles on the car the bouncing off the rev limiter is a good thing to do to avoid glazed bores (which is exactly whet the above does). It may be your rev limiter is not working, that's down to Fiat.

so realy it's all down to driver error

if you let it go up to say 7000 and then panic and dump the cluch into 3rd quicly enougth you are afectively halving the engines speed in an instant but the cams want to keep going you are lucky they dident go to far and bend valves

my dad says he has seen it done to many a car

if you want to drive fast find the bite point quickly and ease out gently after that

dont just let go of it

just cos they do it in need for speed dosent mean it does you car any good

I do not see this situation of cams going at a different speed to the rest of the engine, with my Mini Cooper (bored out wild cam LCB manifold etc) you could wring it out in 2nd and 3rd and snatch the next gear without using the clutch just lifting and back on the throttle with a bit of timing, resulting in very satisfactory progress! Modern sport motorcycles let you do the same thing as well at up to 14000 rpm!

Renegade_8 said:

I do not see this situation of cams going at a different speed to the rest of the engine, with my Mini Cooper (bored out wild cam LCB manifold etc) you could wring it out in 2nd and 3rd and snatch the next gear without using the clutch just lifting and back on the throttle with a bit of timing, resulting in very satisfactory progress! Modern sport motorcycles let you do the same thing as well at up to 14000 rpm!

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well your mini will only let you into the next gear when the reves have droped enouth hence you lifting off to let it in so it wont cause this

also motorbike gears are desighed to do this cars arent when you hit the next gear on a bike it momenterily cuts the spark just like an f1 car dose when they shift

if you let the cluch out quick enouth you cause the engine to slow down so quick the cams will jump

specialy as the fiat has timing variators on both of them alot of enurcia

I'm not saying you can't make a camshaft jump a notch on a toothed belt, what I am saying is that pinging the car off the rev limiter and then catching the next gear should not hurt it. The 16v has peak power at 6000 rpm and max torque at 4500 (Fiats web site) so with a close stacked set of ratios you should be able to nail it in any gear, ping the limiter snatch the next and be at peak torque, otherwise it's hardly a "sporting" is it? Also a quick burst though the revs in a lower gear will actaully help the rings to seat, nailing it for a long time in a high gear can cause them to overheat and soften, however in the speed camera infested UK this is unlikey to happen. So if the engine is shagged after one ping off the limiter Jason should get an engineers report and then reject the car.

just cos it says sporting on it thats no excuse to let the cluch out soo quick it jumps teeth its not a formula one car

if you took any car and let it hit the limiter then let the cluch out as quick as humanly posible it will do the same

that is the only way it can hapen

i bet if he gets an engineer to have a peak it has advanced the timing on the one that has jumped ie engine slowing and cams keeping on going

it is perfectly posible to change gear fast and smove at the same time
if you know what your dooing

the only other case of this i can remember is a women driving in high heels
was going for a gear change whilst her foot sliped off ther cluch and exsactly the same thing hapened

if you down change an engine quicly enouth it will f@*k the engine
same goes for changing up to quick if you make a mistake

as i said just cos they do it in need for speed dosent mean a sporty family car can do it

if your not going to use the cluch as it was intended you might aswell have an on off swich under your foot

also their is no chance of a lose cam belt throu improper manufacture as it has a spring loaded tensioner on that engine to make sure it is set right

I wouldn't have said I slammed the clutch down, I put it in as quickly as I normally would. Which isn't ramming it so hard down my feet tickle the back of the engine.

Seems to be OK now, has lost engine breaking. The man at the garage couldn't explain / work out why or how to fix it.

But I ask you this, you do 30-40mph in third drop down to second slowly properly etc and feel how much engine breaking you have.

Whatever or however, it shouldn't have happened. Also I don't rate their overall customer service skills or reponsiveness in getting something done.

Some dealers are worse than others unfortunatly . My dealer was fantastic in the sales and aftercare I knew all the staff by first name and they all new me by first name and my car reg! . Must be the amount of time I was there lol customers started asking me questions about the GP as I was always there . Just glad you got it put right thats the main thing .

No engine braking = no compression so probably shagged valves or timing still out.The black soot in your exhaust was unburnt fuel being blown through the engine without being burnt in a cylinder with all the valves closed. Go to a different dealer, or get an engineer to look at it ,someone who has a compression tester and can use it ( it is a pig to get to your spark plug holes of course, but possible, otherwise this is not a big job, I would expect 1 hour time, choose one who asks you what torque setting the plugs go back with! My Bravo Haynes gives 25NM or 18 lb/feet for the 1.4 16V). I would expect to see about 170 lbs/square foot in old money and with +/- 5 across all 4 pots. It may be your head needs to come off and your dealer does not want to help. I have pinged my 1.8 Marea off the rev limiter a few times, its redlined at 6500, these short stroke 16v engines really only get going in the last 1/4 of the rev counter, all that happens is you stop accelerating, realise the electronics has saved you from your own stupidity and change up normally. There is no need to beat yourself up over this, it will happen on the road when you are busy with other cars, lane changing looking for signs being talked at by wife/GF etc, on a track it repeats every lap so you get to know the change points on the circuit ,the other drivers and cars and can plan ahead for traffic from different classes etc on the grid so it will be on your mental map in advance.

Thank you all for the replies.

My dad said to them to make sure they test the compression.

They said they had, also had said the valves couldn't be damaged because there was enough clearning up the top also something about it only having one cam shaft wheel or something - my dad said it should have two.

He really didn't have a clue why it didn't have engine breaking, he was really arguing the toss at anything I said or my dad said.

He wasn't really interested, or seemed to care that i'd brought a brand new car that i'm going to end up paying nearly £13,000 for.

Was dissapointed with this, becuase before all this happened I loved my car.