Howdie all,

Just thought i would pop up this info i have just gleamed last night and tried. I have a focus type Induction kit fitted to my sei and think it is ace and love the noise and look but suffer from the common problem of the engine running hot sometimes. After a bit of investigation i have found the common problem for this and it is the Engine PCV system!

Never even herd of it till last night after a chat with a very clued up tuner.

Basically i like most removed the standard oil breather from the rocker cover and piped in a straight pip from the breather to the inlet pip on the focus kit. Then made a short pip from the intake manifold nipple to the hole in the focus kit 90% bend.

This hover means that the blow by caused by induction in every engine is not sucked out correctly by the inlet manifold. Then the carbon in the blow bye creates excess heat in the engine and drops the carbon deposits in it also into your engine oil!

I have replaced the standard breather pip now fitted correctly to the inlet manifold ( Blocked off hole in 90% bend with a bolt) and add an extra bit of larger pip to reach the focus kit.

Hay i tell you now it does make a difference the engine is running smoother and cooler, but the focus kit does not make as much of a roar now but ho hum i can live with that if the engine is working better and i am no longer damaging it basically.

Apparently this affects the map sensor also as not all the gases are now being passed through it by induction?
Hence possibly the better running as my friend recons the old setup would cause the CDI to over fuel the system which will also cause over heating ?

Just thought i would share this info as not seen anything about the PCV system on here, if it is apologies i missed it and this is a repeat.

theres 3 Cento Nuts on here and theres one relying now ...and there is Mr cento , and Donald ive fogot his username

so i take it from your post is the pipe from your rocker cover to the induction kit ?
http://www.fiat-scotland.com/fiat/upload/photopost/data/500/medium/20130515_204606.jpg

, Take the pipe off ,the induction kit, and put it down the back of the bay , make sure it wont interfere in the Alt belt or starter ect ,,, and then all your oil gasses will go under the car ..
and seal up the hole in the induction kit ,..

it shouldnt make a diffrence in noise/ power if you have this pipe connected up to the rocker or not ... ive ran 5 years + with no pipe connected on mine just a little oil breather

The picture is the way is was. But this is the issue the link pip to the inlet manifold should be fitted for the engine to breath properly or it can cause over heating apparently?

I will say this is on the MPI not sure about SPI?

If you look at a standard breather pipe it splits into 2 and the thin one goes to the inlet manifold this must be fitted and should not be removed apparently or it affects the engine breathing?

I know exactly what pipe your onabout Malfunction, I have a spare one in my toolbox, as I was going to fit it back onto my Sei before I sold it, but that never happened.
The Cento nuts as James refers to them as are: David rallycinq (comes on now & again), Donald Scuderia, James (jatkinson), Mark Mrcento & Steve M Clock34

When I fitted the indcution kit, my friend from work cut the breather pipe that comes out from the rocker & as I didn't have the pipe I needed I fitted 2 of theese http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/..._productId_163535_langId_-1_categoryId_165660
1 at the rocker Breatehr & th other where the hose should have gone in on the induction pipe.

Ive blocked off the one off that comes out the back of the Tb ,, and for 5 years had NO problems , once im building mine back up ill take pics for you

jatkinson said:

Ive blocked off the one off that comes out the back of the Tb ,, and for 5 years had NO problems , once im building mine back up ill take pics for you

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Its ok jatkinson don't worry i understand, all i am saying is i have been advised the engine will run better with this pipe fitted and this would appear to be the case?

If you Google Engine PCV system it explains why.

It can be run without it, if you are then its best to add an oil catch can to the breather to store all the gunk that will build up and help to stop contaminating your engine oil with carbon. But the engine breathing will be affected as all engines since 1960 or something have had a PCV system due to emissions control and engines are now designed with this in mind so run better with a closed breather system linked to the intake manifold to circulate the fumes unless heavily modified.

Also with the intake manifold sucking the hot gases out helps to reduce overall engine temp which brings me back to what started this as could not see how a filter could cause an engine to be prone to overheating. Mine has only done it since the filter was fitted and it also has a new Radiator and all cooling system is working fine hence investigation to try and stop it. It has a new head gasket fitted only a few months ago and head was skimmed and ported while this was done also and temp was fine again till induction kit was fitted.

And after reading this forum and FF cinq, punto and Seic (fitted with FIRE engines) all seem to be very prone to this so wanted to investigate why and most have an induction kit fitted so i investigated further and looks like most make the same mistake as me, or you even according to the above and remove this breather system. I don't think this is obviously the sole reason but anything helps in my book and like i say if you read up on it then it does make sense.

I personally think a big factor in engine temp is my very weak ankle muscles and my foot sitting on the floor above the pedal often. :haha:

Anyway we all have different ideas and theory's to things and this is just one i have been advised and looked into. It will either help someone or at worst give them something to laugh at if i am totally wrong.

I too blocked the TB and just vented the breather to air. Which is technically an mot fail but never been pulled up for it.

you could vent to a catch tank.

as for how it runs? Well over time it can start to gunk up the internals a bit, and having cleaner air reaching the air/fuel mix is only a good thing, especially in the long term.

How hot is your engine running? An induction kit shouldn't make any difference to that.

i always ran with it connected.... never had any problems obviously.

i still to this day dont know why people block them? if it did nothing it wouldnt be there. it took 1 min to drill and thread the bob to allow attachment of the breather i reallllly dont know why people cba doing that tiny job lol....



but tbh, i still think blocked off wouldnt make a life changing difference (if any)due to the fact the fiat fire engines are not PCV systems and have no possitive pressure to them. this intail would mean it would make no difference at all blocked or otherwise, as far as ive been led to beleive the small pipe only helps the flow of gunk into the engine as just one can block. it always has to have a backup. almost all cars ive ever seen have a small hose running back into the inlet aswell as the major one. your eninge will run, though rough. with a blocked big pipe and the little pipe running. it gives u a heads up.)



also worth a note. the intake mani does not suck any gasses out... only in. and IFFF you are having possitive crank case pressurethen your getting this blow by... this means pretty much your piston rings are shot and are pressurising the block. this will cause overheating and showup more obviously with a induction kit. as you can see it blowing the oil down the tube!.

the induction is not changing this. ALL it is doing is allowing more air to flow. increasing the pressure in the cylinders, due to more air after the easier suck stroke. the higher pressure is causing more blow by. a higher crank case pressure (that shouldnt be pressured) and more heat and carbon and shite into the oil.... the problem is your rings mate! i can almost garantee it.

there causing overheating, blow by, breather problems ect. the pressure thats getting in that shouldnt be is just pushing the oil straight out the breather....


id also say the tuner is having u on and isnt in the know at all.


ALSO to prove that he isnt all knowing.... air flow is not recorded with a MAP sensor. only a MAF wich fire engines dont have. and no amound of atmospheric breathing will change that. map sensors will still work regardless of induction and even without a filter at all... hes talking out his ass



ALSOOOOOO CDI isnt used on these engines either. so thats more bull tbh. and as for the overfueling that would cause cooling. extra fuel unburnt = cooler running. more lean running = extreme temperatures and melting pistons.

Clock34 cheers make, have looked into this further and all you have said i have to agree with now looks like i was being waffled to before.

PS compression testing next weekend as looks like i may be in need of new rings, best scenario worst will be honed block, new pistons and rings or may be needing valves sorted

mate TBH im not sure how mechanically minded you are. but for the price of honing new pistons and rings ect. and concidering what will need to come apart to do that (i.e block out the car) you might aswell get a second engine and just install it, will be cheaper IMHO. ive had a few in the past for around 80 of our earthly pounds.

keep us updated anyways!!

Clock34 said:

mate TBH im not sure how mechanically minded you are. but for the price of honing new pistons and rings ect. and concidering what will need to come apart to do that (i.e block out the car) you might aswell get a second engine and just install it, will be cheaper IMHO. ive had a few in the past for around 80 of our earthly pounds.

keep us updated anyways!!

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Clock34, you are quite correct and due to this i now have a punto 1.2 mpi engine sitting in my shed

I have done the compression test and there is small variations in compression but nothing drastic. The radiator would appear to have been the issue which has now been changed. :wacko:

so looks like i have another head to flow, strip and clean the block and do the 1.2 conversion next year i think

the head from your 1.1 will fit with no adverse effect. it will also keep the stud pattern for the uno inlett upgrade!

but great anyways. as always keep us updated!