Hi guys, new here im just woundering if someone can help me, i bought a 52 plate swb ducato 2.0 jtd this week and it has really bad brakes the guy told me it had had new pads and wheel cylinders at the rear and he had bled the breaks but they were still dodgy and might need bleeded again also the handbrake is rubbish the pedal goes nearly to the floor before the brakes work but if you pump the pedal they are much better.
I bought the van for £500 pound as a stop gap but after driving it for a couple of days i really like it and want to get it up to scratch, also it was filthy but has cleaned up really well.
Thanks in advance.

When you've pumped it up does it hold pressure when you put your weight on the pedal or does the pedal go slowly to the floor that may be the master cylinder. Could also be stuck calipers in the front. Get yourself a brake clamp and clamp off each wheel one at a time narrows things down very quickly.

moodrater said:

When you've pumped it up does it hold pressure when you put your weight on the pedal or does the pedal go slowly to the floor that may be the master cylinder. Could also be stuck calipers in the front. Get yourself a brake clamp and clamp off each wheel one at a time narrows things down very quickly.

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Thanks for the quick reply moodrater, i have just been outside and pumped the brakes and the pedal holds pressure, if i take my foot off the pedal and reapply it a few minutes later it goes back down to the floor.
could it be air in the system?

moodrater said:

When you've pumped it up does it hold pressure when you put your weight on the pedal or does the pedal go slowly to the floor that may be the master cylinder. Could also be stuck calipers in the front. Get yourself a brake clamp and clamp off each wheel one at a time narrows things down very quickly.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick reply moodrater, i have just been outside and pumped the brakes and the pedal holds pressure, if i take my foot off the pedal and reapply it a few minutes later it goes back down to the floor.
could it be air in the system?

Also if i pump the brakes till the pedal is hard and then start the van with my foot on the brakes the pedal slowly loses pressure. (doesnt that mean the servo is working?)

carpetmonster said:

if i pump the brakes till the pedal is hard and then start the van with my foot on the brakes the pedal slowly loses pressure. (doesnt that mean the servo is working?)

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That's right, but the pedal shouldn't go down too far and should still feel firm when it stops.

I'd have thought if there was air in the system the brakes would feel spongy so if the pedal goes hard there probably isn't. If you can't see any fluid loss anywhere and you don't have to keep topping up the reservoir my money would be on a problem with the master cylinder.

fenman said:

That's right, but the pedal shouldn't go down too far and should still feel firm when it stops.

I'd have thought if there was air in the system the brakes would feel spongy so if the pedal goes hard there probably isn't. If you can't see any fluid loss anywhere and you don't have to keep topping up the reservoir my money would be on a problem with the master cylinder.

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Thanks fenman do you think i should try bleeding them myself and is it doesnt improve then try a new master cylinder? wounder if he has knackered the master cylinder when hes bled the brakes?

One thought that occurs to me - since you mention the handbrake is rubbish I wonder if you've checked the adjustment of the rear shoes. If the shoes were really slack you'd likely have to pump the brakes to extend the wheel cylinder pistons out far enough to get them into contact with the drums and then when released the springs would push the pistons right back. Before you bleed I would check that. Also if the shoes were that slack it would be impossible to adjust the handbrake cable properly.

If the shoes do need adjustment remember to slacken off the handbrake cable first then adjust that up after the shoes are right.

fenman said:

One thought that occurs to me - since you mention the handbrake is rubbish I wonder if you've checked the adjustment of the rear shoes. If the shoes were really slack you'd likely have to pump the brakes to extend the wheel cylinder pistons out far enough to get them into contact with the drums and then when released the springs would push the pistons right back. Before you bleed I would check that. Also if the shoes were that slack it would be impossible to adjust the handbrake cable properly.

If the shoes do need adjustment remember to slacken off the handbrake cable first then adjust that up after the shoes are right.

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Would this cause the shoes to be rubbing in the drums? I'm getting a grinding noise from the back? Seems to have started today and seems to change when the brake pedel is pressed.

Grinding noise ...sounds like the rear shoes have had it.. potential the steel of the shoe is now contacting the drum (and that could be the grinding noise)...the brake friction material has gone
If this is the status of the shoes it could also be why the brake pedal is travelling down so far.
If you are competent, pull down the rear brakes to investigate, of get a proficient person to do this for you

Agreed, I'd definitely have the drums off before you do anything else.

Whoever did the cylinders in the back may have reassembled incorrectly or fit the wrong parts too. Like I said a brake hose clamp or two is the fastest way to isolate an issue at the wheels.

Thanks guys, going to have the drums off tomorrow, I'm a fairly confident home mechanic but does any one know where I can down load a manual or get a dirgram of the break assembly, it's a ducato swb 2.0 jtd 52 plate cheers

carpetmonster said:

Thanks guys, going to have the drums off tomorrow, I'm a fairly confident home mechanic but does any one know where I can down load a manual or get a dirgram of the break assembly, it's a ducato swb 2.0 jtd 52 plate cheers

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https://www.fiatforum.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=23

Thanks for your help lads, took the drum of the passenger side today and it turns out the adjuster bar has broken I two and fell outta place rattling about in the drum, hence the noise and the pedal trave and poor hand break! £45 for a new one ouch!!!

It's good to hear you've found the problem. I think I'd be trying a scrappy before parting with all that cash.

Ain't it nice when a result just drops in your lap like that. I have this feel to the brakes on mine, but its disc all round; apparently, 'they all do that, Sir'.
Pls post back when done,, cheers!

Ocwobio said:

Ain't it nice when a result just drops in your lap like that. I have this feel to the brakes on mine, but its disc all round; apparently, 'they all do that, Sir'.
Pls post back when done,, cheers!

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Hi,
their problem was found + fixed .. 3 months ago,

as was stated , clamping off a hose and testing 3 corners at a time could help in the elimination process..,

IF you'rs is "all disc" - does it have a separate drum for rear handbrake..??

Charlie

varesecrazy said:

IF you'rs is "all disc" - does it have a separate drum for rear handbrake..??

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Yes, at least mine has.

Also ePer is your (& everybody's) friend.

varesecrazy said:

Hi,
their problem was found + fixed .. 3 months ago,

as was stated , clamping off a hose and testing 3 corners at a time could help in the elimination process..,

IF you'rs is "all disc" - does it have a separate drum for rear handbrake..??

Charlie

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Yes, thats the setup. Brakes do work 100%, but I'd like to see if I can improve the feel somewhat. No big deal if I can't but....

Ocwobio said:

Yes, thats the setup. Brakes do work 100%, but I'd like to see if I can improve the feel somewhat. No big deal if I can't but....

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100%,
that's really impressive

lots of vehicle have handbrakes in the @25% range for MOT's