Technical Brake light issue

[Gregz]

Hi all, I've got a Burstner Solano Moho based on a 2007 Ducato 2.3 multijet 130, just returned from a weekend away, on the way down I had the bulb warning light flash on a few times and when I arrived at my destination after turning the engine off and removing the keys all the headlights and indicators flashed a few times and then the brake lights remained permantly on. I tried removing the fuses relating to the brake lights but had no effect so removed the bulbs to preserve the battery and bulbs over the weekend, the highlevel led brake light remained dimly lit and works when brake pedal pressed. Aside from this everything else appears fine.
I have searched the forum before posting and cant find anything similar, other than general bad earth and water ingress causing a variety of problems, which I'm hoping/praying is the case and a realtively simple and cheap fix. I'm in the process of booking in with an auto electrician but wondered if anyone had come across similar issues and can shed any light and help point the trician in the right direction.

Many thanks

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

Attached are the earth points.

Then, in the download section of the forum you'll find the eLearn module for the x250. It covers mostly the electrics, with detailed (but tricky) descriptions.

There's also the online version, but sometimes the access in not working correctly

There's a link to the online version, an article on water ingress into the rear lights:

Home Page

aftersales.fiat.com

That could also be the cause (rust in the light cluster connector). Modify the engine according to your own, but for this part (rear lights) it should be the same for all engine versions. You can navigate through the menu to check other articles and descriptions.

The offline version works all the time, but requires an installation on a Windows PC + mount of the iso image file to a virtual disc drive (I'm using UltraISO) to launch the app.

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

As your vehicle is a coachbuilt type, the rear lights will have been fitted by the converter (Burstner) so the Fiat wiring diagram for that part will not apply. There is a "converters socket" at the bottom of the UK driver's side door pillar (hidden under trim) which is used to join the Fiat electrics to the Burstner ones.

Issues affecting multiple circuits are generally due to a fault either in a common live feed or a common earth connection. For example if the earth connection to a rear lamp cluster goes high resistance or open circuit, the indicators can earth instead via the brake lights (and vice versa) and all sorts of weird effects can ensue. If your coach built body is fibreglass the rear lamp earth return connection may be quite long before it can attach to the chassis/body. It's possible it even goes all the way back to the converters socket.

You could try temporarily bridging the cluster earth(s) back to a good earth at the front of the vehicle e.g. the engine block. If all comes good, it's a sign that the "proper" earth return cable has a break in it.

 

[the green vanper]

I agree with @Anthony489, I don't have an idea why I assumed it is a standard body Sorry.

So, only a part of the information I posted in the previous post are valid, but both eLearn offline and online could be very useful, as the cab / dashboard are the same as in the standard commercial van (and mine, too).

In addition, there's the manual prepared by SEVEL addressed to the coachbuilders which also could be very useful on this part:

x250: New Fiat Ducato. Conversion and fitting-out manual.

The original document prepared by Fiat Professionnal for builders / converters / upfitters dedicated for the Ducato x250 series.

www.fiatforum.com

 

[rayc]

There was a fault with the brake light switch on early X250 models. If the brake pedal was raised e.g. by foot or when fitting carpets etc the the switch operating piston would be pushed in and not retract and the lights stay on. If you slide your hand up the brake pedal lever you can remove the switch which has a bayonet fitting and pull the plunger out. Whe refitting push the pedal down and slowly allow the switch to meet the brake pedal.

 

[Gregz]

Thanks all for your help so far, I did try the brake switch when I noticed the problem, it appeared to be operating as it should but I'll take another look now I'm not quite so annoyed!
The 3rd high level light module appears to have some moisture in as well, which wasnt obvious over the weekend so I'll take a look at all that before getting a trician to look at it properly for me. My abilities rapidly tail off beyond swapping things out like for like, so best to leave to someone that knows what they are doing, but your help is much appreicated and will save some investigation time when it goes in

thanks again

 

[Anddy159]

Hello, I have the following issues with my Ducato 250:

When the engine is warm, it sometimes starts in a strange way. The engine was replaced with a new one, and the mechanic said it was due to bad grounding. They added a connection to ground the engine, but the issue has persisted for the seven years I’ve had the vehicle.

However, additional symptoms have appeared:

- When I fill up the fuel tank, the dashboard starts flickering, the display lights up brightly, the fuel gauge drops and then jumps back up, and sometimes the speedometer, tachometer, and water temperature needles act erratically. This keeps happening for a few kilometers until the fuel level drops slightly.
- My reverse lights have now stopped working. Occasionally, they flicker. Today, I tried to fix this by checking the ground connections behind the lights, and they seemed fine. I added a new copper ground wire between the engine and the chassis, and also to the battery (while doing this, the cable accidentally touched the battery's positive terminal, causing a small spark). Oddly enough, the reverse lights started working again, but I couldn’t find the actual problem.
- I have replaced the temperature sensor in the mirror three times already, but it keeps showing 50-80 degrees, while the real temperature is much different. This has been going on for two years, and because of this, the air conditioning doesn’t work properly.
- Occasionally, I get warning lights when driving over bumps, indicating that my brake lights or license plate lights aren’t working. But other times, these lights work just fine.

Can anyone advise on how to fix this?

 

[Sonar]

Hello, I have the following issues with my Ducato 250:

When the engine is warm, it sometimes starts in a strange way. The engine was replaced with a new one, and the mechanic said it was due to bad grounding. They added a connection to ground the engine, but the issue has persisted for the seven years I’ve had the vehicle.

However, additional symptoms have appeared:

- When I fill up the fuel tank, the dashboard starts flickering, the display lights up brightly, the fuel gauge drops and then jumps back up, and sometimes the speedometer, tachometer, and water temperature needles act erratically. This keeps happening for a few kilometers until the fuel level drops slightly.
- My reverse lights have now stopped working. Occasionally, they flicker. Today, I tried to fix this by checking the ground connections behind the lights, and they seemed fine. I added a new copper ground wire between the engine and the chassis, and also to the battery (while doing this, the cable accidentally touched the battery's positive terminal, causing a small spark). Oddly enough, the reverse lights started working again, but I couldn’t find the actual problem.
- I have replaced the temperature sensor in the mirror three times already, but it keeps showing 50-80 degrees, while the real temperature is much different. This has been going on for two years, and because of this, the air conditioning doesn’t work properly.
- Occasionally, I get warning lights when driving over bumps, indicating that my brake lights or license plate lights aren’t working. But other times, these lights work just fine.

Can anyone advise on how to fix this?

Have you starter battery tested.
Had a similar thing turned out the battery had 13.2 volts but only half the amps ..

 

[the green vanper]

Earth points to check, then the BCM, ECU etc, as the x250 is known for having several 'unexplained' electrical issues caused by water ingress into the engine bay.

Earth cables tend to rot on the inside, replacing the cables and adding extra ones usually helps.

Those are widely described on any Ducato / FIAT forum.

 

[Sonar]

Hello, I have the following issues with my Ducato 250:

When the engine is warm, it sometimes starts in a strange way. The engine was replaced with a new one, and the mechanic said it was due to bad grounding. They added a connection to ground the engine, but the issue has persisted for the seven years I’ve had the vehicle.

However, additional symptoms have appeared:

- When I fill up the fuel tank, the dashboard starts flickering, the display lights up brightly, the fuel gauge drops and then jumps back up, and sometimes the speedometer, tachometer, and water temperature needles act erratically. This keeps happening for a few kilometers until the fuel level drops slightly.
- My reverse lights have now stopped working. Occasionally, they flicker. Today, I tried to fix this by checking the ground connections behind the lights, and they seemed fine. I added a new copper ground wire between the engine and the chassis, and also to the battery (while doing this, the cable accidentally touched the battery's positive terminal, causing a small spark). Oddly enough, the reverse lights started working again, but I couldn’t find the actual problem.
- I have replaced the temperature sensor in the mirror three times already, but it keeps showing 50-80 degrees, while the real temperature is much different. This has been going on for two years, and because of this, the air conditioning doesn’t work properly.
- Occasionally, I get warning lights when driving over bumps, indicating that my brake lights or license plate lights aren’t working. But other times, these lights work just fine.

Can anyone advise on how to fix this?

has this now been sorted. If so what was it ..