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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #16
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Re: Timing belt damage fix (hopefully)

That No 7 does look a right mess doesn't it Brian - commiserations!

You'll find components like cam followers are very hard indeed and can't be drilled with ordinary drills such as the likes of you or I might own.

I've been magnifying up the image you've posted of that No 7 and looking carefully at the left side of the follower bore. I think I can see a small curl of picked up metal at around 8 o'clock, as if the top edge of the follower has dug into the bore? If this is the case, as S130 suggests, it's likely the follower is tilted in it's bore and if this is the case probably the head is scrap (sorry). Tapping it with a hammer and, maybe, punch, at around 2 o'clock might just straighten it and shear off the swarf curl so you can get it out but I suspect it'll be a lot of effort for nowt if the bore is damaged?

Of course it is extremely likely these (No2 and No7) valves will be bent and there may well be others less obviously bent. When a valve is hit hard by the piston it's not unusual to find damage to their guides too, maybe even piston damage.

Could be your easiest - and most satisfactory - solution will be a used head from a scrapie? I've actually never done a Fiat diesel but BMC/BL were my bread and butter with some earlier VAG (VE engines) too. So, just to alert you, in case you don't know (and I don't know if Fiat are like this) but there are often a selection of head gasket thicknesses on diesels depending on piston protrusion (you have to measure TDC piston height relative to the block face and use the appropriate thickness of gasket.

Good luck with it all. I will be following your posts with great interest and will let you know immediately if I see any way I can be of help.

Kindest regards
Jock
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #17
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Re: Timing belt damage fix (hopefully)

Hi Pugglt,
Love the name, exactly how I feel tonight after another 2 hours trying to work out how to get that last nut off the heatshield. I'll try and take a picture of it tomorrow.
Once I've got the head off plan is to check what the block looks like and if OK order a scrap head and salvage best bits from both.
Fingers crossed for tomorrow.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #18
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Re: Timing belt damage fix (hopefully)

You may have to borrow or hire an induction coil heater for that rusted bolt.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #19
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Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
You may have to borrow or hire an induction coil heater for that rusted bolt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFh8Pci5gpc
That looks like a pretty useful gadget!

Managed to finish sawing through the bolt last night and then put a lot of wd40 on the manifold bolts to try and soften the rust off them. Undoing them will be tonight's project hopefully.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #20
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Re: Timing belt damage fix (hopefully)

Finally got a chance to spend some time on it over the weekend and the main holdup was the 2 exhaust manifold studs at the bottom of the bracket, both of which I ended up destroying to get the manifold loose.
That and finding brackets and connectors aplenty.
As expected 2 of the valves are bent but the others seem ok and the block looks and turns over ok.
Now the process of rebuilding starts 😁
One thing that does amaze me is just how inaccessible the glow plugs are - even with the head loose in the engine I still ended up disconnecting the relay from the bulkhead to get at the left hand side one.
Will definitely check and change, along with cleaning the injectors, before I start to reassemble.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #21
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Re: Timing belt damage fix (hopefully)

As you have the head off I would take the valves out and "bench roll" the stems looking for any slight valve head wobble. If I were doing this job I would also do some valve lapping on all the valves (you will have to on the two replacements for the bent ones). With the lapping of the old valves you will be immediately able to see from the valve seat and valve head if there is any signs of the valve being bent (oval and non concentric lapping marks).
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #22
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Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
As you have the head off I would take the valves out and "bench roll" the stems looking for any slight valve head wobble. If I were doing this job I would also do some valve lapping on all the valves (you will have to on the two replacements for the bent ones). With the lapping of the old valves you will be immediately able to see from the valve seat and valve head if there is any signs of the valve being bent (oval and non concentric lapping marks).
Will do, thanks for the tips.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #23
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Quote Originally Posted by BrianMcL View Post
Will do, thanks for the tips.
Can't work out how to get the 2 stuck valves out 🤔

Also, I've tried to get the injectors out but they seem pretty stuck as well.

Any tips that anyone has would be very much appreciated.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #24
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Re: Timing belt damage fix (hopefully)

For the two stuck valves I'm assuming it is because the followers are still jammed in the head as per you original pictures. If this is the case then I think you are going to have to take the head to a machine shop. They will be able to mill away then central meat of the followers without touching/damaging the the valve spring top plate or the collets.

Injectors will probably need vibrating/shaking out with a LOW toque ratchet wrench + the usual penetrating fluid. Diesel fuel is very good in this respect.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #25
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Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
For the two stuck valves I'm assuming it is because the followers are still jammed in the head as per you original pictures. If this is the case then I think you are going to have to take the head to a machine shop. They will be able to mill away then central meat of the followers without touching/damaging the the valve spring top plate or the collets.

Injectors will probably need vibrating/shaking out with a LOW toque ratchet wrench + the usual penetrating fluid. Diesel fuel is very good in this respect.
We've tried everything to get them out and they are not for shifting I think it's safe to say that the head will have suffered a fair bit of damage.

Going to get a replacement head and see how I get on with that.

I'll try and post more updates over the next few days as the weather seems to be set relatively fair.

I've also ordered a slide hammer and injector removal tool. I'll post an update on how I get on with it, maybe as a separate post if that's allowed?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #26
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Re: Timing belt damage fix (hopefully)

Interesting thread, well done for tackling this.

I had a very nearly similar problem with our punto hgt, that used the same 1.9 8V multijet engine (with 100hp) the water bump bearings broke up and the pump went off centre, this then guided the belt off the cam pulleys. The first I knew of it was smoke coming out from under the bonnet, which as it turned out was the belt, cutting its way through the plastic cam covers, but, it didn’t snap the belt and it didn’t come off the camshaft pulleys completely so it just managed to alert me in time to protect the timing.

I threw it at a fiat specialist, as at the time there was no engine literature and the 1.9 hgt was relatively unheard of.
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