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Old 29-05-2010   #16
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

EGR can cause a general lack of 'bottom end' torque, a 'surging' on acceleration, excessive wastegate noise, a sudden 'jerk' on acceleration, a jerky downchange from 4th to 3rd in automatic cars and in the worst cases (depending on failure mode) illumination of the engine check light.

EGR is a sore point for me - having had all of the above symptoms except the warning light I now have a collection of old EGR valves in my shed, in the end a new valve with the latest part number finally made my car run acceptably well.

Both the old valves have had the full 'strip and clean' carried out in the past, which helped for a while before the symptoms returned. The topic has been well covered on this forum, search for 'EGR' and you'll see what I mean

Only took me two years and 46K miles to get it sorted

HTH.
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Old 29-05-2010   #17
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Hi DoIDon'tI,
It progressively looses bottom end torque as it builds up towards its regen cycle but once it completes it's fine for a while. Would that be consistent with EGR issues or if it's an EGR issue should it behave in a random or consistent fashion (i.e. you never know when it's going to be down on power or it's always going to be down on power)?

A couple if independents that have had a look at it are convinced it's an airflow sensor problem.

I just can't help thinking that because the problem is so predictable the solution has to be obvious.

I've had a read through the various how to's on EGR cleaning and so forth so I'll have a bash at that - you never know, it might be the solution.
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Old 29-05-2010   #18
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

The MAF sensor and EGR are both known to cause issues, however you would think that it would be more consistent. EGR cleaning is worth a go, one known method of testing the MAF is to try the car with it electrically disconnected - if it's better then it's the MAF.

For the car to be this sensitive to exhaust back-pressure makes me wonder if another part of the exhaust is faulty (baffles breaking down or cat problem), or whether the turbo is working correctly.

The EGR does have some effect on low-speed turbo operation so you never know, it might be worth a try. The thing to remember is that the car's performance should not vary noticeably whether the DPF is clear or full.

Good luck, and please let us know how you get on.

HTH.
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Old 29-05-2010   #19
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Obvious question and with a presumably obvious answer but I'll ask anyway.

Do I just pull the plug out the MAF?
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Old 30-05-2010   #20
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Another thought on this one.

Are there any published tolerances that the engine should operate within? For example, if it was the turbo that's the problem what should I see in ECUscan results?

Also, if it was something exhaust-related is there anything within ECUscan that would show outwith tolerance?

It's as if there's just enough pressure/power within the engine for it to operate normally when the DPF is OK but as soon as it starts to clog (presumably increasing back pressure albeit only marginally?) it starts to loose power.

And, if there's a malfunctioning sensor on the DPF might it cause the engine to gradually power down, possibly to protect the DPF itself?
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Old 30-05-2010   #21
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Quote Originally Posted by BrianMcL View Post
Obvious question and with a presumably obvious answer but I'll ask anyway.

Do I just pull the plug out the MAF?
Yes but the ECU will throw the engine check light on. If you don't have the kit to reset it (e.g. FiatECUScan + cable) then you will have to drive that car over several days/starts/drive cycles with the MAF connected before the ECU will (hopefully) turn the light out itself.
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Old 30-05-2010   #22
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

eLearn does have some "tachnical data", values etc. but I've not seen a consolidated chart. Much of the data is contained in the specific fault diagnosis sections of eLearn.

As for interactions (complex?) between devises then I think everything will be experienced based and not documented.

I have an "Auto Solve Diagnostic Assistance Ebook" so I'll take a look there when I get a moment, but I doubt it will help much.
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Old 30-05-2010   #23
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Quote Originally Posted by BrianMcL View Post
At 42989 miles my readings per ECUscan 1.6 and 2 are
Particle filter 68.41%
Avg distance of last 5 regens 1050km
Avg duration of last 5 regens 553 seconds
next oil change 42000km
oil det 84%
Avg temp last 5 regens 628.16 deg C

Whatever's wrong with my engine I'm less and less convinced that it's a DPF issue.

Could anyone tell me how EGR and Airflow sensor issues manifest themselves?
Airflow sensor exhibits as lack of acceleration due to Engine comp reducing the amount of fuel to match the supposed smaller volume of air!!
Cheers Dino
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Old 30-05-2010   #24
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

I reset the P1206 error using ECUscan, unplugged the airflow sensor and got the 2 errors to say that there was no reading from it.

Took it for a drive but it was no better so I guess that rules out the airflow sensor.

Not quite sure what to try next other than forcing the regen and seeing if that fixes it for now.
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Old 30-05-2010   #25
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Tried to force a regen using ECUScan 2 but it wouldn't work. Not sure why as the engine was warm enough and the revs were sitting at 900rpm. I use a KKL cable so maybe that's the problem.

Upgraded 2.2.1 in case that fixed it and it says that I need the registered version at e49.95 for it to work.

If I was sure that it would work I'd be happy to pay but I'm not too sure about anything with the car anymore.

I've got a bit of driving to do again tomorrow and it should have completed a regen on it's own by the time I get home so I'll rerun the tests and see what the results show - it should be back to working OK again for a while.
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Old 31-05-2010   #26
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Quote Originally Posted by DoIDon'tI View Post
EGR is a sore point for me - in the end a new valve with the latest part number finally made my car run acceptably well.

HTH.
Hi DoIDon'tI ....

What part number is your "latest" part?

Also do the collection of old EGR valves have the the same or different part numbers?

I'm certainly looking for youe "latest" part number so I can validate the supercede history for the EGR valve.
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Old 31-05-2010   #27
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Quote Originally Posted by BrianMcL View Post
If I was sure that it would work I'd be happy to pay but I'm not too sure about anything with the car anymore.

Short of posting the specific query on the FiatECUScan forum then you my just have to pay and see if it works. If not then as a paying customer then I would expect you to get a fix or a refund.
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Old 02-06-2010   #28
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
Hi DoIDon'tI ....

What part number is your "latest" part?

Also do the collection of old EGR valves have the the same or different part numbers?

I'm certainly looking for youe "latest" part number so I can validate the supercede history for the EGR valve.
Hello again Nick,

sorry for the delay but life's gone a bit daft at the minute. Here goes:-

Original EGR valve (manufactured 2005) 55194735

Second one (manufactured 2007) 55204250

Third one (manufactured 2009) 55215031

There may be later ones but TBH I'm happy now as the car finally runs & drives to my satisfaction.

HTH.
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Old 02-06-2010   #29
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Thanks HTH / aka DoIDon'tI

That info will be most useful.

I now need to see if the EGR gasket change is associated with any or all of the valves.

By EGR gasket I'm referring to the later "bullet hole" gaskets of which there were/are two.
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Old 03-06-2010   #30
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Hello again HTH, DoIDon't I and s130.

All of your help and advice has been very useful so far and having tried all of your various suggestions it looks as though I've got a couple of potentially separate issues - the EGR valve causing a periodic lack of power (sometimes scary!) at the bottom end and some sort of DPF sensor issue briefly triggering the check engine warning / limp mode as the dpf clogs.

The second problem clears itself with a decent drive and I can reset the warning light with ECUScan (although it switches itself off anyway after a short while).

Having read through the many other posts on EGR valves cleaning / blanking seems like a reasonable next step.

I had a look for the valve though and I can't find it. Would you be able to tell me where to find it in the 8v 120bhp JTD please?

Thanks once again for all of your help though - the car would have been through auction by now without it.
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