BrianMcL said:

Obvious question and with a presumably obvious answer but I'll ask anyway.

Do I just pull the plug out the MAF?

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Yes but the ECU will throw the engine check light on. If you don't have the kit to reset it (e.g. FiatECUScan + cable) then you will have to drive that car over several days/starts/drive cycles with the MAF connected before the ECU will (hopefully) turn the light out itself.

eLearn does have some "tachnical data", values etc. but I've not seen a consolidated chart. Much of the data is contained in the specific fault diagnosis sections of eLearn.

As for interactions (complex?) between devises then I think everything will be experienced based and not documented.

I have an "Auto Solve Diagnostic Assistance Ebook" so I'll take a look there when I get a moment, but I doubt it will help much.

BrianMcL said:

At 42989 miles my readings per ECUscan 1.6 and 2 are
Particle filter 68.41%
Avg distance of last 5 regens 1050km
Avg duration of last 5 regens 553 seconds
next oil change 42000km
oil det 84%
Avg temp last 5 regens 628.16 deg C

Whatever's wrong with my engine I'm less and less convinced that it's a DPF issue.

Could anyone tell me how EGR and Airflow sensor issues manifest themselves?

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Airflow sensor exhibits as lack of acceleration due to Engine comp reducing the amount of fuel to match the supposed smaller volume of air!!
Cheers Dino

I reset the P1206 error using ECUscan, unplugged the airflow sensor and got the 2 errors to say that there was no reading from it.

Took it for a drive but it was no better so I guess that rules out the airflow sensor.

Not quite sure what to try next other than forcing the regen and seeing if that fixes it for now.

Tried to force a regen using ECUScan 2 but it wouldn't work. Not sure why as the engine was warm enough and the revs were sitting at 900rpm. I use a KKL cable so maybe that's the problem.

Upgraded 2.2.1 in case that fixed it and it says that I need the registered version at e49.95 for it to work.

If I was sure that it would work I'd be happy to pay but I'm not too sure about anything with the car anymore.

I've got a bit of driving to do again tomorrow and it should have completed a regen on it's own by the time I get home so I'll rerun the tests and see what the results show - it should be back to working OK again for a while.

DoIDon'tI said:

EGR is a sore point for me - in the end a new valve with the latest part number finally made my car run acceptably well.

HTH.

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Hi DoIDon'tI ....

What part number is your "latest" part?

Also do the collection of old EGR valves have the the same or different part numbers?

I'm certainly looking for youe "latest" part number so I can validate the supercede history for the EGR valve.

BrianMcL said:

If I was sure that it would work I'd be happy to pay but I'm not too sure about anything with the car anymore.

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Short of posting the specific query on the FiatECUScan forum then you my just have to pay and see if it works. If not then as a paying customer then I would expect you to get a fix or a refund.

s130 said:

Hi DoIDon'tI ....

What part number is your "latest" part?

Also do the collection of old EGR valves have the the same or different part numbers?

I'm certainly looking for youe "latest" part number so I can validate the supercede history for the EGR valve.

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Hello again Nick,

sorry for the delay but life's gone a bit daft at the minute. Here goes:-

Original EGR valve (manufactured 2005) 55194735

Second one (manufactured 2007) 55204250

Third one (manufactured 2009) 55215031

There may be later ones but TBH I'm happy now as the car finally runs & drives to my satisfaction.

HTH.

Thanks HTH / aka DoIDon'tI

That info will be most useful.

I now need to see if the EGR gasket change is associated with any or all of the valves.

By EGR gasket I'm referring to the later "bullet hole" gaskets of which there were/are two.

Hello again HTH, DoIDon't I and s130.

All of your help and advice has been very useful so far and having tried all of your various suggestions it looks as though I've got a couple of potentially separate issues - the EGR valve causing a periodic lack of power (sometimes scary!) at the bottom end and some sort of DPF sensor issue briefly triggering the check engine warning / limp mode as the dpf clogs.

The second problem clears itself with a decent drive and I can reset the warning light with ECUScan (although it switches itself off anyway after a short while).

Having read through the many other posts on EGR valves cleaning / blanking seems like a reasonable next step.

I had a look for the valve though and I can't find it. Would you be able to tell me where to find it in the 8v 120bhp JTD please?

Thanks once again for all of your help though - the car would have been through auction by now without it.

If you refer to ePer via the FF (seems to be running good now) as a starting point – then note, it may not show (?) the later issues of EGR & gaskets.

For example, for the 1.9/16v-150 I think it shows the 55194735 EGR. I’m on (as far as I know) a third EGR unit – the second 55204250 (35.6K mls) was replaced by a third 55215031 (47.6k mls) c/w the 55225287 gasket (4x 8mm or 9mm holes?).

The route I took was to check the unit on the car (55204250) – but not easy, as I think I could only make out only some of the part number. I’m not sure now how I found out that the 55204250 had been replaced by the 55215031 – maybe from a later issue ePer(?). Anyway, I checked it with a dealer & asked for a cross-ref with the latest gasket mods. Some confusion then, as they said they’d not sold (or ever had) any of the new gaskets - & they had to refer back to FIAT (UK). Bought a Vauxhall 031 (received without gaskets) - & ordered FIAT gaskets (48 hrs).

Note: the above P/No’s are good for a 1.9/16v-150 – that won’t necessarily fit your 8v … 120 … or whatever.

References:
https://www.fiatforum.com/croma/229267-p0401-egr.html

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1go_PUmx0WE"]YouTube- demontage EGR Alfa 147/GT/Fiat stilo jtd 16v[/nomedia]

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55 Croma II 1.9/16v 150

Your EGR valve (according to ePer) is at the back of the engine, bolted to the rear of the inlet manifold i.e. item 7 in the picture. Your EGR valve is totally different to the 150 & 200 ones. The valve will be a long reach to get to because of its position - right in the middle of the rear of the engine bay. I personally believe it's worth a go as excessive EGR flow will help clog the DPF prematurely.

PS "HTH" stands for "Hope This Helps". I like being anonymous in these days of 'Big brother' - I am not a number etc etc etc.

HTH

Hello again,
Thanks for posting the details on the EGR valve location.

Haven't quite managed to pluck up the courage to take it off yet but I did run ECUscan on it this morning and got the following results.

Engine off for about 24 hours - 4% open.
Switch engine on and rev to 1200 revs - 40% open
Rev to 1800 revs 50% open
Drive to work (10 miles mixed town and motorway driving) and at idle (900 revs) it was showing 4% open and behaving in much the same way as when it was cold.

Before I go to the trouble of taking it off would anyone know whether these results were normal?

BrianMcL said:

Before I go to the trouble of taking it off would anyone know whether these results were normal?

Click to expand...

The EGR valve is not linear and has no feedback signal. The ECU just tells the valve to open / close on an n% duty cycle. If the valve sticks then the only way the ECU can detect this is by the longer term monitoring of air flow and as EGR flow is also not directly measured the ECU has to conclude EGR flow by using airflow value and then applying an algorithm (engine speed plus probably other factors). This means that things get very approximate which is probably why EGR problems are so infuriating. Nothing is hard and fast.

I have my Croma for 6 months now, 10000 km.
When I just acquired my car I removed the EGR valve to clean it, it wasn't necessary because it was a new one.
The engine is a 8V 115 hp.
I took a graph with FIATEcuScan and found out that the EGR valve was open (I think 40%) almost all the time and only closed (4 %) during acceleration.
A few weeks ago I removed the valve once more for inspection but it was still clean.
Because the car sometimes hesitates at 2000 rpm I put a blanking plate.

The 16V 150 hp blanking plate is rectangular and has four 8 mm holes.
The 8V 115/120 hp plate is oval, I drilled five 6,5 mm holes in it.
The surface of 5 x 6,5 mm diameter is slightly larger then 4 x 8 mm.

The hesitation is completely gone but I can't tell the effect on consumption as I started using the AC the same time.

Crombel said:

I have my Croma for 6 months now, 10000 km.
When I just acquired my car I removed the EGR valve to clean it, it wasn't necessary because it was a new one.
The engine is a 8V 115 hp.
I took a graph with FIATEcuScan and found out that the EGR valve was open (I think 40%) almost all the time and only closed (4 %) during acceleration.
A few weeks ago I removed the valve once more for inspection but it was still clean.
Because the car sometimes hesitates at 2000 rpm I put a blanking plate.

The 16V 150 hp blanking plate is rectangular and has four 8 mm holes.
The 8V 115/120 hp plate is oval, I drilled five 6,5 mm holes in it.
The surface of 5 x 6,5 mm diameter is slightly larger then 4 x 8 mm.

The hesitation is completely gone but I can't tell the effect on consumption as I started using the AC the same time.

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Hi Crombel,
Thanks for the advice - as soon as I press the accelerator it jumps to 40% to 50%.

In your opinion would it be possible to make a blanking plate or would i have to buy one from somewhere?

I've made gaskets before but not for a long time.

Caravadossi said:

If you refer to ePer via the FF (seems to be running good now) as a starting point – then note, it may not show (?) the later issues of EGR & gaskets.

Click to expand...

The ePer via FF is an old version & you maybe risk ordering obsolete parts for your car.

Maybe (?) this will access a 2010 version ...

http://www.farel.it:7080/navi?SBMK=...DE=0&PREVIOUS_KEY=HOME&SB_CODE=-1&WINDOW_ID=1

Edit: 2010/06/07 22:00
Hopefully it'll work & you'll hack-it - but if in difficulty, please advise. Note the spares catalog is the first on the menu (left) & you should be able to change brands & languages.

---------------------
55 Croma II 1.9/16v 150hp

BrianMcL said:

In your opinion would it be possible to make a blanking plate or would i have to buy one from somewhere?

Click to expand...

I made have it as it is my own design

I will make an illustration to make things clear.

Crombel said:

I made have it as it is my own design

I will make an illustration to make things clear.

Click to expand...

Hi Crombel,
That would be fantastic! :worship:

I know that blanking it off won't be a long term solution but it would be nice to confirm the problem is the EGR before spenfding any more money on diagnostics.

Would I need any gasket paper or instant gasket to join the plate on?

Thanks,
Brian

s130 said:

The EGR valve is not linear and has no feedback signal. The ECU just tells the valve to open / close on an n% duty cycle. If the valve sticks then the only way the ECU can detect this is by the longer term monitoring of air flow and as EGR flow is also not directly measured the ECU has to conclude EGR flow by using airflow value and then applying an algorithm (engine speed plus probably other factors). This means that things get very approximate which is probably why EGR problems are so infuriating. Nothing is hard and fast.

Click to expand...

Hi s130,
As always these days things are never as simple as I seem to think

I'm going to try it with a blanking plate and see if that helps.

My thinking is that if I can isolate the problem, or at least the main problem, as the EGR valve, then I'd be less concerned about throwing more money at it and at least I'd know what to fix.

Fingers crossed!