General Group B style cinq V6

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General Group B style cinq V6

ProjectCinqV6

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I've been thinking for a while that it would be fun to convert a small hatchback to rear wheel drive, mid-engined arrangement.

I reckon the cinq is the perfect starting point, mainly cos its super light and small, but also it has a bit of character, and is the last thing you expect to rip past you on a trackday! :)

I'm thinking Alfa 164 3.0 V6 at the moment, which ahs 192Bhp [8D](12v) and shouldn't cost more than £350 for an engine and box.

Is this a cruel, heartless thing to do to a cinq?;)
What d'ya reckon[?]
 
Many years ago a well meaning gentleman fitted a 1 litre BDA in the back of a Fiat 500.

This car was lightened, had nice wide wheels fitted, and span like a top as it was almost as wide as it was long.

The last incarnation of the Renault Clio was also known for extremely dodgy handling in rear wheel drive form.

Fun, but beware, it might bight

Cheers

David
 
Yeah, getting it to handle well will probably be the trickiest bit, so I'd try to build the suspension with adjustablity where possible.
Its naturally oversteery nature should make it a lot of fun - just what you want at a trackday, theres nothing like a challenge!

If anyone knows of a cinq I could have cheap (shell, or whole car, any model), I'd be very interested. One with a blown engine would be ideal.:):)

Mark
 
heh, check out ebay, this is v nice cinq, but im sure your paying for the sporting extras...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2452388802&category=9843

also depends where you can get from

Cinquecento Sporting,
and yes it is indeed Broom Yellow \o/
 
Ive been jokingly considering a V6 transplant for a while....where will the fuel tank go?

Be damn good though

:D:D

Arse

Ill think of something witty....just wait and see............wait I might not.
 
Hmmm not sure about a V6 in the rear would cost serious £££££££'s
I always fancied fitting a Hayabusa engine in a cinq or twin 1242 engines though...

Did have a very modded Sei then a Impreza RB5, Err and now got a Honda Civic Type-R
biggrinflip.gif
 
Serious £££? What?

Project cinq's gonna cost less than a grand - I've got a good Alfa 164 V6 front end lined up for £225: engine, gearbox (knackered, but I think I'll be able to fix it), subframe, struts, uprights and brakes, infact all the running gear for the back half. (3L, 192Bhp)

Obviously thats too much, so I'm holding out till he'll take £200. Then I should be able to get a knackered cinq for £200. £100 max for steel tubing for the roll cage (bend it myself), some suitable front uprights, struts and brakes off some other suitably undesirable vehicle and thats most of it sorted.

Insurance though... thats another story! Phoned a couple of specialists, Adrian Flux would insure me (age 24) but it'll cost about a grand. Still, not bad considering what a road eating beast it'll be. Maybe just trailer it to track days. Unless anyone want to offer financial support/order one!

Mark

Anyone know how I set my own picture as my Avatar?
 
Don't forget and i'm not knocking you, it may sound simple but theres lots of little things to consider such as:

1. Where to put the radiator, can't be at the front as the water pipes would be 5" long the water pump could not cope
2. Engine loom how are you going to wire this into the cinq loom ?
3. Wheres the fuel tank/fuel lines going to go
4. Considered strengthening the chassis?? A massive V6 with all that power and weight might bend/ripple the chassis due to the rear floor section being cut out to house the engine
5. Rear suspension would need to be the front alfa struts to mount to the driveshafts, you would need to fabricate some turrets to mount the struts to the back of the cinq
6. Rear brake lines
7. Rear driveshafts from gearbox, they would need to be profesionally shortened/new ones manufactured, you can't cut them and weld them back up they would snap
8. Exhaust system, you would need to fabricate a custom exhaust system that provides enough backpressure, no backpressure on a NA car is bad news
9. Extend the original or have a bespoke gearlever made up
10. The alfa is rear wheel drive?!? How would you connect the rear wheels to the gearbox, if your thinking of using the original gearbox and connecting it to the reardiff with a shortened propshaft the engine would need to be where the driver sits leaving you on the bonnet!!!

I seriously considered doing a rear bike engine conversion on a cinq when i had my Sei and i saw one at the Autosport show last year with a bike engine in the back but i found out it would cost £££££££££££££'s, the autograss Sei was basically a spaceframe inside with the Sei shell bolted ontop.
You may of heard of Z Cars ??
They have created single and twin R1 engined minis this i've heard costs around £5000 to do, not cheap!!

If you do this it would be truly awesome but it would be a lenghtly and costly project.
Good luck to you

Did have a very modded Sei then a Impreza RB5, Err and now got a Honda Civic Type-R
biggrinflip.gif
 
ProjectCinqV6 said:
Yeah, getting it to handle well will probably be the trickiest bit, so I'd try to build the suspension with adjustablity where possible.
Its naturally oversteery nature should make it a lot of fun - just what you want at a trackday, theres nothing like a challenge!

If anyone knows of a cinq I could have cheap (shell, or whole car, any model), I'd be very interested. One with a blown engine would be ideal.:):)

Mark
pm me, ive got a cheap cinq for sale
 
Err..................this thead's over 2 and a half years old, and the OP hasn't been on the forum since June 2004.............
 
I'm thinking of doing this (in fact I should have copyrighted the idea):bang: , but to my mind the stock V6 doesn't have anything like enough power. You'd need a 16v 3.2 or --- to match the Cossie one --- some serious turbocharging. It has the huge merit of being a set up used in countless Stratos replicas: the spring rates, etc. are known (or knowable).
CentoEvo said:
theres lots of little things to consider

so let's look at 'em one at a time
CentoEvo said:
such as:

1. Where to put the radiator, can't be at the front as the water pipes would be 5" long the water pump could not cope

It'll work just fine. Indeed Alfa fitted this very engine in this configuration in a couple of prototype Sud Sprints and it works fine in the Stratos Replicas. There was also a very pretty home brewed Sud Sprint with a Ferrari 308 engine -- a rally car! Where do you think rear engined water cooled cars put their radiators?
CentoEvo said:
2. Engine loom how are you going to wire this into the cinq loom ?
Extend the power in to the Cinq ECU and take it to the 164 ECU (mounted in the rear). Much of the rest can stay as is.
CentoEvo said:
3. Wheres the fuel tank/fuel lines going to go
Fuel tank at the front, fuel pipes under the floor (or above it if off road competition is considered.
CentoEvo said:
4. Considered strengthening the chassis?? A massive V6 with all that power and weight might bend/ripple the chassis due to the rear floor section being cut out to house the engine
Generally, you'd put in a roll cage first, ideally welding it in before you reached for the cutting torch. You could also pop some square section tube in the sills or "membrane" them. It'd be inclined to use a proprietory roll cage for the front welded to square section for the rear.
CentoEvo said:
5. Rear suspension would need to be the front alfa struts to mount to the driveshafts, you would need to fabricate some turrets to mount the struts to the back of the cinq

Yes. To my mind using wishbones rather than struts is the way to go.
CentoEvo said:
6. Rear brake lines
Easy to make up in tube or Goodrich
CentoEvo said:
7. Rear driveshafts from gearbox, they would need to be profesionally shortened/new ones manufactured, you can't cut them and weld them back up they would snap
Yes. You'd need to find someone to cut new splines, etc. Or you could turn some up and get splines cut.
CentoEvo said:
9. Extend the original or have a bespoke gearlever made up

This is the hardest part! It's not simply a matter of extending the gearlever.
CentoEvo said:
10. The alfa is rear wheel drive?!? How would you connect the rear wheels to the gearbox, if your thinking of using the original gearbox and connecting it to the reardiff with a shortened propshaft the engine would need to be where the driver sits leaving you on the bonnet!!!

This Alfa is front wheel drive, transverse V6

In the end, this car would probably handle like a Stratos -- a real handful on the limit, but would be a blast. A flat engine with better weight distribution would be a better bet. But, a Lycoming would pose a lot of problems, a Subaru would be politically incorrect, the Lancia flat 4s are a bit old in the tooth and can't put out the power without going into unknown territory and Posche turbo motors are a bit thin on the ground at sensible prices.
 
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