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Old 19-01-2009   #31
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Few hints on similar problem from other forums:

1) check if fuel tank breather hose is clogged.
2) check if no air bubbles are in fuel pump feeding hose (use transparent hoses)
3) check compression when engine is hot.

Can't really explain in more detail why the above would matter in your case, but based on the discussion I'd say the problem is rather on the fuel side than on the electrical one... Good luck.
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Old 19-01-2009   #32
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

THANKS for your input btomic i will check thos.wifes pinched the car to go to wales this week hope it keeps running for her.
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Old 20-01-2009   #33
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

so you got a spark when it was hot and not firing

maybe a duff injector but it's unheard of

has anyone changed the fuel filter
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Old 20-01-2009   #34
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Quote Originally Posted by The Sultan View Post
so you got a spark when it was hot and not firing

maybe a duff injector but it's unheard of

has anyone changed the fuel filter
Sultan - the spark was great while the engine was in its 'hot-not-starting' mode. It may well be the injector. The trouble with trying to meter things is that once a wiring connection is open the ECU just see it as a fault and shuts down. When it's running I did check the voltage drop across the injector wires and got a 1.5 volt difference. My plan is to see what voltage drop I get, if any, when it is turning over while hot and not starting. When running cold or hot it is fine. If the engine stalls or is switched off it will restart immediately. The fault only occurs when left for more than a few minutes. Then it does not fire at all. The engine will spin up OK, but just not fire.

I think it safe to rule out mechanical wear or (as someone suggested) or a blown head gasket. I tried driving the car to the top of an humungous hill. Switched off for a few minutes and tried to start it on the starter. As expected no joy. I then rolled the car downhill for close on a mile........nothing. I got a lift back home. On return, with a cold engine it fired up immediately. There is no middle ground, it fires up or doesn't.

Having trawled the 'net I have found a few people who experienced this problem; but not one solution to it. I haven't found any mention of a duff injector anywhere but this will be the last thing to check. If Mach_1 does get his beast plugged into the diagnostics I'd certainly love to know the result.
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Old 21-01-2009   #35
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Quote Originally Posted by steviebaby View Post
Sultan - the spark was great while the engine was in its 'hot-not-starting' mode. It may well be the injector. The trouble with trying to meter things is that once a wiring connection is open the ECU just see it as a fault and shuts down. When it's running I did check the voltage drop across the injector wires and got a 1.5 volt difference. My plan is to see what voltage drop I get, if any, when it is turning over while hot and not starting. When running cold or hot it is fine. If the engine stalls or is switched off it will restart immediately. The fault only occurs when left for more than a few minutes. Then it does not fire at all. The engine will spin up OK, but just not fire.

I think it safe to rule out mechanical wear or (as someone suggested) or a blown head gasket. I tried driving the car to the top of an humungous hill. Switched off for a few minutes and tried to start it on the starter. As expected no joy. I then rolled the car downhill for close on a mile........nothing. I got a lift back home. On return, with a cold engine it fired up immediately. There is no middle ground, it fires up or doesn't.

Having trawled the 'net I have found a few people who experienced this problem; but not one solution to it. I haven't found any mention of a duff injector anywhere but this will be the last thing to check. If Mach_1 does get his beast plugged into the diagnostics I'd certainly love to know the result.
infact if you remove the air box you can see wile it's running what the injector spraying looks like loads of pulses of fuel hitting the back of the throttle
maybe you could get it going faulty and have a look in there and see if it is indeed injecting should also here the injector there quite loud

if it is then maybe an air leak that only happens when hot due to expansion or something
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Old 21-01-2009   #36
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

It sounds like a problem in the Thrust bearing clearance. I suggest checking it.
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Old 21-01-2009   #37
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

This is a bit of a long shot and I'm not up to speed on the 1.4 engine, but could it be the ECU's coolant temperature sensor playing up? I've had a case in the past where a dodgy sensor caused the SPI unit not to spray fuel in certain conditions - fine cold, a pig when hot. The other condition I've had that's caused similar symptoms was a leaking inlet manifold gasket.
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Old 21-01-2009   #38
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Thumbs up Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Quote Originally Posted by The Professor View Post
This is a bit of a long shot and I'm not up to speed on the 1.4 engine, but could it be the ECU's coolant temperature sensor playing up? I've had a case in the past where a dodgy sensor caused the SPI unit not to spray fuel in certain conditions - fine cold, a pig when hot. The other condition I've had that's caused similar symptoms was a leaking inlet manifold gasket.
Tried disconnecting that sensor when normal temps reached let it run till fan cuts in then switch off with it disconnected,still wont fire up.Manual states that if its not working correctly the ECU uses its own readings to keep it going-thought about changing it cost £tenner ish but where do you stop with trying this trying that!!
thanks for help fiat fans.
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Old 26-01-2009   #39
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Quote Originally Posted by spwalker View Post
It sounds like a problem in the Thrust bearing clearance. I suggest checking it.
if the crank end float was taking the crank sensor away from it's position when hot it wouldnt spark like it is


and it would float in the middle anyway when the clutch not pressed
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Old 26-01-2009   #40
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Quote Originally Posted by The Sultan View Post
if the crank end float was taking the crank sensor away from it's position when hot it wouldnt spark like it is


and it would float in the middle anyway when the clutch not pressed
I've seen it once - the clearance was immense. It has a perfect compression, consumption was fine, worked fine and starts like a charm when cold. When the engine is hot it refuses to start as the battery is bad but it was a new one. That was because the engine was overheated and sorry to say but it needed total engine repair and new shafts.
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Last edited by spwalker; 26-01-2009 at 20:27.
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Old 27-01-2009   #41
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Quote Originally Posted by The Sultan View Post
infact if you remove the air box you can see wile it's running what the injector spraying looks like loads of pulses of fuel hitting the back of the throttle
maybe you could get it going faulty and have a look in there and see if it is indeed injecting should also here the injector there quite loud

if it is then maybe an air leak that only happens when hot due to expansion or something
OK - I may be on to something. Last weekend it was VERY cold but I decided I had to get out and give Betsie Brava one last try. It was my intention to check the voltage drop across the injector leads while it was in not-start-when-hot mode.

The engine started fine from cold (as always) and I warmed it up to normal operating temperature. I turned off the engine and it restarted straight away (as always). I then turned it off again and waited for the required 20 minutes to get it into not-start-when-hot mode. Sure enough, it turned over fine but did not fire once. While it was cranking (but not starting) I measured the voltage drop across the injector and it was within 0.2v from the measurement taken when it was stone cold. I then took out the injector, measured the resistance directly across the contacts and replaced it. I thought Iíd try to start the engine and it fired up immediately. WOW! Normally the car has to stand for 1.5 to 2 hours before it will restart. I repeated the exercise Ė ran the engine, switched off, waited for 20 minutes, removed the injector, left the injector in the freezing cold. On replacing the injector the car again started immediately.

I have a theory: when cold the injector works fine. When hot the injector doesnít work. Starting from cold the injector is cold of course, so works. When the engine is running the injector is cooled by the flow of cold fresh air over it and so keeps working. Turn off the engine and the flow of cold air stops; the injector begins to heat up from the heat rising from the hot engine. After 20 minutes it is hot enough to fail. Remove the injector into the cold air and it cools down. Replace it and the car immediately starts.

The next step is to replace the injector and see what happens. Iíve spent a small fortune on this Fiat and replaced so many parts itís worth one last try. Iíll post the results.
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Old 27-01-2009   #42
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

WELL THATS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION ! hope it works for you cos maybe thats the thorn in my side,so to speak.i still hav'nt had diagnostic test done,got a fuel filter to put on & ecu temp sensor at the weekend.Fingers crossed yours is an injector-let me know when you try it, ttfn.
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Old 01-02-2009   #43
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

did you not have someone look at it as i said you can see if the injectors are firing or not
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Old 04-02-2009   #44
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Re: bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

hello sultan of swing,bit slow to answer you,sorry been busy playing in the snow mate! Have'nt done anymore to car as yet,to nippy to be outside at mo,did replace the therm sensor & fuel filter under that cover with 3 different sized bolts,like the "krypton factor" getting that bit off.lol but never fixed the issue.will look at injector when its not sleeting,snowing,raining,hailing,cats & dogs etc.cheers bud...
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Old 27-02-2009   #45
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FUEL INJECTOR - bravo 1.4s trouble starting when hot

Brava 1.4 Hot Starting Problems


Hi, well after a lot of time, effort and money spent on 'Betsie Brava' I've fixed the dreaded Hot-Starting problem. IT WAS THE FUEL INJECTOR.
Following the help and advice I received from members on this site I changed everything there was to change:
Crank position sensor, temperature sensor, oxygen sensor, ECU, ignition coil, fuel pump etc etc.

As a last resort and despite nobody ever having experienced injector problems I decided it was worth paying a last £45 for a replacement injector. The car now starts up every time, hot or cold. I started to think it might be the injector when I took the cover off to look inside, with the engine hot. It was a freezing cold day. Instead of needing an hour or more to cool down the engine fired up. I guessed that the injector was not working when it was hot. When the engine was running the cool air passing over it kept it cool enough to work. When the engine was turned off heat from the engine would rise up the throttle body and the injector would get hot. After being left for just a few minutes the injector was then hot enough to fail. It was then necessary to leave the engine to cool down completely before it would restart. It proved to be difficult tracking down an injector (I live in the Isle of Man) but eventually I found a breaker that did a complete throttle body for £45 delivered.

So, Betsie has been saved from the scrapyard. Many thanks to everyone who offered help. Hopefully my experience will help others who have had the same problems.
Quote Originally Posted by martmach1 View Post
Hi to all fiat fans,ive got an 96 1.4s bravo,its been brilliant for ages but lately its been hard to start from warmed up.The problems got worse since last week when i put a new thermostat in it,europarts item,ive noticed that the ignition coil gets very hot so i tried to move it away from block.It stays cool now but problem persists!If it wont start a fiddle with the electrical connector 5 or 6 times putting on and off usually gets it going,is it the coil breaking down as when its cold it starts fine??i changed the therm as the old one was stuck open which made injector light occasionally come on plus heater didnt heat up,this solved the igniter prob! sorry to be long winded but thought it best to explain fully-hope one of you out there can point me in the right direction.Thanks for your time!!!!
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