Has anyone replaced their engine? I have a friend in Germany who is a member of a 'b' club, he recently had to replace his engine. I asked if he used an HGT engine or one off fleabay and he said he had used a Fiat Bravo/Marea 1.8 engine. This is quoted as having 113bhp but produces 11kW more..at this point he kinda lost me! Fitting the engine also meant a change to engine fitting and oil pan but he (thankfully) didn't go into too much detail. His english is not bad but I think we would both have struggled with more detail. If I'm correct this engine doesn't suffer from the variator issues so common in the blessed 'b'.

This is just some info to share with the forum in case anyone is in this situation in the future. Perhaps there are better or cheaper alternatives but obviously that is open for discussion. I could find out more if anyone needed the extra info but just remember it may be in german!

"113bhp but produces 11kW more" doesn't make sense. bhp to kW is straightforward - multiply your bhp figure by 0.7457

Anyway Bravo/Marea 1.8 engine is ****, don't use it. Wait for a B or Punto HGT.

This 1.8 engine is older/less powerful than the version in the B. No variator issues as no variable valve timing and listed at 110Hp not 130. No shortage of Punto HGT's as donor cars so why did he make a lot of work for himself and end up with a rubbish engine?

Stevo Gee said:

Has anyone replaced their engine? I have a friend in Germany who is a member of a 'b' club, he recently had to replace his engine. I asked if he used an HGT engine or one off fleabay and he said he had used a Fiat Bravo/Marea 1.8 engine. This is quoted as having 113bhp but produces 11kW more..at this point he kinda lost me! Fitting the engine also meant a change to engine fitting and oil pan but he (thankfully) didn't go into too much detail. His english is not bad but I think we would both have struggled with more detail. If I'm correct this engine doesn't suffer from the variator issues so common in the blessed 'b'.

This is just some info to share with the forum in case anyone is in this situation in the future. Perhaps there are better or cheaper alternatives but obviously that is open for discussion. I could find out more if anyone needed the extra info but just remember it may be in german!

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Why downgrade on horse power?

BILL33 said:

Why downgrade on horse power?

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Can't answer that but obviously cost might be a factor? I'll ask him and post his reply.

Stevo Gee said:

Can't answer that but obviously cost might be a factor? I'll ask him and post his reply.

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How much cheaper could it be?The VFD engine was in so many fiat models (stilo,coupe,punto,barchetta)that i dont think is hard to find a used one.
Anyway i am just thinking loudly.Its his car and can do what ever he wants.

I'd be tempted to go for an Alfa 2.0 Twin Spark myself. Fits with a few small changes apparently.

I wouldn't bother, they are a terribly fragile engine and consume about 1 litre to 1000 miles of oil.

A lot of work for an extra 20hp IMO.

I hear this "about 1 litre to 1000 miles of oil" quoted all the time, and, unless you are revving the valves off it - it's not true. The 2.0 twin spark is one of the best four cylinders produced. I loved mine.

I also have a 1.8 145 TS, 140,000 miles, not a problem so far.

I love my current 156 2.0 TS too, they do consume oil.

How do you explain an elderly female owner coming in for a check over only to find the oil is low?
Are you telling me she revs the valves off of it?

The engine comes into life at about 3krpm all the way up to 7krpm.

When you neglect oil top ups then the engine will run a bearing and usually on cylinder 3 as the exhaust down pipe runs under the sump so it is quite shallow beneath that cylinder.

Other than oil starvation and frequent cambelt changes (36k/3years for TS) they are a great engine.
However to fit one in a Barchetta does not warrant the work required for the power gained.

Honestly, of the three 2.0 TS engines I've owned, not one of them has consumed oil. What year is yours? I owned a 96 GTV, 98 Spider, and a 99 Spider. I know there were two main revisions of the TS (metal cover vs. plastic cover), so maybe that's the difference? Also, don't rule out that "elderly female owner" - she's most likely got a 19 year old grand son :-D

Funkstar De Luxe said:

Honestly, of the three 2.0 TS engines I've owned, not one of them has consumed oil. What year is yours? I owned a 96 GTV, 98 Spider, and a 99 Spider. I know there were two main revisions of the TS (metal cover vs. plastic cover), so maybe that's the difference? Also, don't rule out that "elderly female owner" - she's most likely got a 19 year old grand son :-D

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Maybe she has...

I've had the plastic tops; 98' 156 and 99' 156. I rarely see metal tops, probably all been killed.

afroking said:

probably all been killed.

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Don't say that! :-(

From my experience on the alfaowner forum, it seems some do drink oil and some don't. I had a 2.0 156 which used about 1 litre every 2,500 miles if that.

The Barchetta uses more!

Fiat/Alfa engine oil consumption can be very bad BY DESIGN!

A Fiat Tipo 1.6ie is rated (in the handbook/worshop manual) at 50g/100km at 880g/l
A Tempra 1.8ei os rate (..........) at 90g/100km

Round number this is 0.9l per 1000 miles for the Tipo, and, 1.6l per 1000 miles for the Tempra.

Odd as it sounds/look these figures are 'normal'.

A reason for the high consumption, which is not limited to Fiat/Alfa/Lancia, but also impacts BMW, Mercedes etc. is that the manufacturers deliberately increased upper cylinder lubrication (via valve stems & rings) after the change to unleaded fuel in UK/Europe. I can only assume that this was a cost saving measure while they honed their valves and seat hardness requirements to the 'new' European fuel market. All these guys will save every penny they can and whilst in the US unleaded fuel has be the then norm for many years (all US Fiat 124/Spiders/Coupes were fully hardened and using fuel injection!) the new European drive to unleaded was new.

I'm was told by BMW and Mercedes dealers when I was investigation the "oil consumption" in my then Tipo and Tempra, that the 50g to 100g per 100km was in many cases far BETTER than some of their engines achieved.

I'm inclinded to agree with the points you put forward, they seem very plausible.