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Old 15-04-2013   #16
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Re: Engine run in - oil & oil filter change

Quote Originally Posted by bgunn View Post
We'll agree to disagree. As you seem to know best, having worked on, and dismantled many, many engines
I changed my oil first time at 18k and it didn't blow up. All I did was check the levels. I want the newbies on this forum and less mechanical people to know that the people discussing these issues are looking for perfect over the top servicing much more stringent then what 90% of people do or the manufacturers ask for. So if you do even 50% of what these guys do, your car will be well looked after!
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Old 15-04-2013   #17
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Re: Engine run in - oil & oil filter change

Quote Originally Posted by ahmett View Post
I changed my oil first time at 18k and it didn't blow up. All I did was check the levels. I want the newbies on this forum and less mechanical people to know that the people discussing these issues are looking for perfect over the top servicing much more stringent then what 90% of people do or the manufacturers ask for. So if you do even 50% of what these guys do, your car will be well looked after!
That's a fair point.

What loveshandbags doesn't seem to understand is that the standard manufacturers testing regime is incredibly harsh and will way exceed what almost any owner will put their car through to provide a good margin of over engineering (not too much, of course, as it'll last too long).

What I mean by the oiling requirements not being particularly demanding is that unlike many VAG cars (1.8T, the PD diesel amongst others), if you give it standard oil, and change it regularly it'll be fine. There haven't been rafts of Tjet engines exploding, have there?
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Old 15-04-2013   #18
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Re: Engine run in - oil & oil filter change

Quote Originally Posted by bgunn View Post
That's a fair point.

What loveshandbags doesn't seem to understand is that the standard manufacturers testing regime is incredibly harsh and will way exceed what almost any owner will put their car through to provide a good margin of over engineering (not too much, of course, as it'll last too long).

What I mean by the oiling requirements not being particularly demanding is that unlike many VAG cars (1.8T, the PD diesel amongst others), if you give it standard oil, and change it regularly it'll be fine. There haven't been rafts of Tjet engines exploding, have there?

Bgunn you are right, to be honest, my mom's VW Polo 1.4's engine blew due to oil starvation and what really annoyed me is that the yellow oil light was not working without me knowing so when I drove it for the first time in months the red oil light came on and, well, that's that!
So now my mom has a VW Golf 1.4 TSI 160 DSG that is leased, and now I really don't care what happens to it as we don't own it and its the responsibility of AVIS to look after it and maintain it. I think for her (someone who just drives cars and all they need to do for them is put petrol in it) its the best solution.

I think people are starting to get confused with all this servicing the more complicated the cars get. Cars just get more and more complicated, so now we have many more issues with things that are a part of the modern car such as electronics
Thankfully, the Fiat 500 is a rather simple car and you do not really need to service it in a main dealer, but even then people get confused especially with the amount of abuse they are getting at the hands of main dealers who charge them so much.
The same cannot be said for BMW's latest cars which need a 500 page instruction manual just to understand the central computer!
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Last edited by ahmett; 15-04-2013 at 15:30.
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Old 17-04-2013   #19
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Re: Engine run in - oil & oil filter change

Quote Originally Posted by bgunn View Post
We'll agree to disagree. As you seem to know best, having worked on, and dismantled many, many engines
I haven't build any engines. The most I've ever done is to take the head off a Fiat 850 get it skimmed and then put it back on.

Quote Originally Posted by bgunn View Post
What loveshandbags doesn't seem to understand is that the standard manufacturers testing regime is incredibly harsh and will way exceed what almost any owner will put their car through to provide a good margin of over engineering (not too much, of course, as it'll last too long).

What I mean by the oiling requirements not being particularly demanding is that unlike many VAG cars (1.8T, the PD diesel amongst others), if you give it standard oil, and change it regularly it'll be fine. There haven't been rafts of Tjet engines exploding, have there?
The revised service schedule for the A500 is to keep the warranty. Of the secondhand A500s that I've driven most of them seemed to have lived in the fast lane. Key benefit of frequently changing the oil in the A500 is to prolong the life of the turbo. There comes a breakeven point particularly given the price of the 10W50 Abarth oil. For some pampered A500SS / 595 6K oil service intervals does seem a little excessive.
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Old 18-04-2013   #20
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Re: Engine run in - oil & oil filter change

Quote Originally Posted by loveshandbags View Post
For some pampered A500SS / 595 6K oil service intervals does seem a little excessive.
Michael, funnily enough, there is no mention of the 595 needing a 6K oil and filter change in the handbook. We all know that the 595 and esseesse should have identical servicing requirements but what about the less informed 595 owner?

Going by the book the 595 variants have the same servicing intervals as the std 135 NP A500. Fiat really need to start adding an addendum to their documentation because even my dealer, despite knowing all the technical facts, has said that it is a grey area, and we know there are dealers who are not switched on who would rely purely on the info as presented.
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Old 18-04-2013   #21
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Re: Engine run in - oil & oil filter change

Quote Originally Posted by grimwau View Post
Michael, funnily enough, there is no mention of the 595 needing a 6K oil and filter change in the handbook. We all know that the 595 and esseesse should have identical servicing requirements but what about the less informed 595 owner?

Going by the book the 595 variants have the same servicing intervals as the std 135 NP A500. Fiat really need to start adding an addendum to their documentation because even my dealer, despite knowing all the technical facts, has said that it is a grey area, and we know there are dealers who are not switched on who would rely purely on the info as presented.
That is surprising Tony - so are you going to stick with the 6k or the 9k oil service intervals ?
As always very much appreciate your posts
On the US A500 they have 8K but I haven't checked the Fiat 500 Turbo model which would be equivalent to the output from the standard A500. The Garrett turbo on the A500 is less stressed than the IHI for the equivalent outputs but produces higher torque levels which wouldn't do the gearbox any favours.
Have you come across what's used as the factory fill oil in the A500 ? Had a quick look 'elsewhere' but didn't come across it.
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Last edited by loveshandbags; 18-04-2013 at 14:05. Reason: Typo
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Old 18-04-2013   #22
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Re: Engine run in - oil & oil filter change

Quote Originally Posted by loveshandbags View Post
That is surprising Tony - so are you going to stick with the 6k or the 9k oil service intervals ?
As always very much appreciate your posts
On the US A500 they have 8K but I haven't checked the Fiat 500 Turbo model which would be equivalent to the output from the standard A500. The Garrett turbo on the A500 is less stressed than the IHI for the equivalent outputs but produces higher torque levels which wouldn't do the gearbox any favours.
Have you come across what's used as the factory fill oil in the A500 ? Had a quick look 'elsewhere' but didn't come across it.
Michael, I shall be sticking to the 6K oil and filter changes as that ties in very nicely with the annual mileage the car covers. I don't know if there is any difference in the oil spec from the factory to that used (Selenia) at normal oil changes at the Abarth dealership. If it was of a specialised type (for running in purposes) then I would imagine that the first oil change would need to be earlier than 6K, however, that is only my supposition. To be perfectly honest I think that the way the oil changes are calculated is wrong.

I'll use my car as an example; my wife drives it most of the time and never uses sport mode and I tend to do the same but occasionally will put my foot down but never redline it. Another owner with a std A500 might always use Sport mode and consistently see 1.2 bar showing on the boost gauge and redline it regularly. Which of those two examples would you consider would benefit the most from earlier oil/filter changes?

Perhaps, as with other manufacturers oil changes should be calculated using info from sensors and ECU that constantly monitor driving habits and conditions and flag up on the dash when this is necessary, much like my old 500 diesel.
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Old 18-04-2013   #23
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Re: Engine run in - oil & oil filter change

Quote Originally Posted by loveshandbags View Post
Have you come across what's used as the factory fill oil in the A500 ?
Since about two years it's Selenia Abarth 10W50.

Yesterday I was at first oil change (1595 km). By curiosity I took a look into oil filter and its layers. Found some really small dirt - same as on this photo: http://bit.ly/11ifrUu but not so much. Looks like residues left in assembly process.

As there is not much place to replace oil filter they had to remove intake pipe (between air filter and turbo). Nice thing is that Abarth has separate service place in a service hall: red lifter, chequered walls all around and big abarth logo on the wall
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