Would like to clarify. When I said "offical" information that comes for the Fiat KeyLearn 500X Technical Serice Manual" as at time of publishing back in 2015.

Note! The KeyLearn data is fully encrypted as well a fully Copyrighted so I CAN NOT AND WILL NOT copy asis and republish information other than what you would be entitled to do in a UK library for personal and educational reference only. Those short text copy/pastes in my post I believe basically comply with UK Copyright law.

Please don't directly ask me for more.

NOTE: Fiat's KeyLearn has been out there since 2015 and NOBODY has cracked that software. Also Fiat have withdrawn KeyLearn and stopped all updates in favour of their commerical expenssive "Subscription" web offerrings. This means they clearly need to and will crack down on and enforce their IP (Intellectiual Property) rights and I have no wish or intent to violate their IPCopyright.

s130 said:

Would like to clarify. When I said "offical" information that comes for the Fiat KeyLearn 500X Technical Serice Manual" as at time of publishing back in 2015.

Note! The KeyLearn data is fully encrypted as well a fully Copyrighted so I CAN NOT AND WILL NOT copy asis and republish information other than what you would be entitled to do in a UK library for personal and educational reference only. Those short text copy/pastes in my post I believe basically comply with UK Copyright law.

Please don't directly ask me for more.

NOTE: Fiat's KeyLearn has been out there since 2015 and NOBODY has cracked that software. Also Fiat have withdrawn KeyLearn and stopped all updates in favour of their commerical expenssive "Subscription" web offerrings. This means they clearly need to and will crack down on and enforce their IP (Intellectiual Property) rights and I have no wish or intent to violate their IPCopyright.

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Totally agree with you.

Tomorrow I am going to visit the local dealership (fortunately know some people there) in order to look for differences related with harnesses and wiring and also to access the bcm to see if there is an option for aligning the existing bcm properly (the electrician couldn't answer this by himself).

Thank you all for your time and the information you gave me.

I will inform you for anything new.

One final (simple and cheap) suggestion - you could swap the OEM bulbs for some of the "extra bright" ones that are around. We had a 2015 little 500, and the dipped beam was poor compared with the 2011 model I used to own. The newer car had the same projector style headlights as the 500X, and I don't think these work as well with halogen bulbs. I bought some Ring bulbs that were claimed to be 150% brighter, and there was a significant improvement, still road legal.

I appreciate this may not give you what you want, but it does improve night driving.

Oh, and back to the S130 led reversing light issue - I risked an "illegal" led lamp in my 500X and it improved the pathetic reversing illumination. I would do the same in my wife's Renault Captur, which is equally pathetic, but changing the bulb is a bumper off job. Ironically, that car has superb led headlights....

TrevC said:

Oh, and back to the S130 led reversing light issue - I risked an "illegal" led lamp in my 500X and it improved the pathetic reversing illumination. I would do the same in my wife's Renault Captur, which is equally pathetic, but changing the bulb is a bumper off job. Ironically, that car has superb led headlights....

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For the record the LED reversing lamp swap IS LEGAL (not illegal in the UK), which is what my research into lighting regulations revealed. Still told my insurance company though.

TrevC said:

One final (simple and cheap) suggestion - you could swap the OEM bulbs for some of the "extra bright" ones that are around. We had a 2015 little 500, and the dipped beam was poor compared with the 2011 model I used to own. The newer car had the same projector style headlights as the 500X, and I don't think these work as well with halogen bulbs. I bought some Ring bulbs that were claimed to be 150% brighter, and there was a significant improvement, still road legal.

I appreciate this may not give you what you want, but it does improve night driving.

Oh, and back to the S130 led reversing light issue - I risked an "illegal" led lamp in my 500X and it improved the pathetic reversing illumination. I would do the same in my wife's Renault Captur, which is equally pathetic, but changing the bulb is a bumper off job. Ironically, that car has superb led headlights....

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I am not sure if I totall understand you, but my car has not projectors, just typical reflectors. I have already replaced oem bulbs with aftermarkets, rated at about 1100 lumens and and many other drivers (especially in lower cars) often flash me (in low beam of course) thinking that I am in high beam. I don't want to compromise in light intensity but not dazzle others too. So I figured out that replacing them with factory bi xenon is the best solution.

Ah, I'd assumed the versions with halogen lights had the same style headlamps as those with bi-xenon. The factory bi-xenons on my old car were excellent, with a really well defined cut-off when dipped, so I don't think they dazzled anyone.

s130 said:

For the record the LED reversing lamp swap IS LEGAL (not illegal in the UK), which is what my research into lighting regulations revealed. Still told my insurance company though.

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Unless the regs have changed from when I last checked NO leds in vehicle lighting are legal unless the vehicle has been type approved with them.

Something to do with the regs referring only to filament light bulbs. This was years ago mind so could have been updated now.

Doubt anyone would check a reversing light, especially as the led upgrade I did was still hardly retina burning! The only reason I put "illegal" in quotes in my earlier post was that the led lamp I fitted to my reversing light had "for off road use only" on the packaging.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Unless the regs have changed from when I last checked NO leds in vehicle lighting are legal unless the vehicle has been type approved with them.

Something to do with the regs referring only to filament light bulbs. This was years ago mind so could have been updated now.

Click to expand...

The reason the reversing light LED can be/is legal is because (if I recall everything correctly which I posted eslewhere in the 500X forum) the reversing light is not covered/regulated by legal legislation because it is not a running manditory vehicle light. Same applies to those lamps mounted on vans and trucks to illuminate working areas etc.

See: "UK Vehicle Lighting Regulations - SCHEDULE 14 - requirements relating to optional reversing lamps"

https://www.fiatforum.com/500x/450881-500x-drl-led-upgrade-2.html?p=4300370

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Unless the regs have changed from when I last checked NO leds in vehicle lighting are legal unless the vehicle has been type approved with them.

Something to do with the regs referring only to filament light bulbs. This was years ago mind so could have been updated now.

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This is in essence all the entire basis for all of those who like to claim everything is illegal, because back in 1989 when the lighting regs came into law we didn't really have anything other than filament bulbs for vehicle lighting so there are multiple descriptions of it being a "filament" construction bulb and i also seem to think it may or may not mention "incandescent"

so obviously the world moved on and now we have LED and HID which didn't exist back then.

EU rules allowed them under type approval rules, i'm sure that means somewhere in the millions of pages of EU rules there are descriptions of vehicle lights that are allowed using other types of bulbs which apply to the UK. Obviously cars that are SVA cars (kit cars) are not type approved but are still allowed to use LED lighting if it meets the rules of the SVA examination and there are literally thousands of lorries on the road covered in hundreds of LEDs that clearly where not fitted when the truck was built but the owners want their truck to light up like a christmas tree.

I wish that people on the forum would stop telling people what is and isn't illegal when 1. they don't have all the facts and 2. they are not solicitors, law makers or enforcers of the law.

Honestly if a car causes you a problem report it and let the authorities investigate if it breaks any laws, other than that answer someone's question

s130 said:

The reason the reversing light LED can be/is legal is because the reversing light is not covered/regulated by legal legislation because it is not a running manditory vehicle light.

See: "UK Vehicle Lighting Regulations - SCHEDULE 14 - requirements relating to optional reversing lamps"
[/URL]

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While they are covered under the 1989 regs there is only a requirement for the lamp/lens of the light to carry an approval mark but not the bulb its self.
There is only a requirement that you have no more than two reversing lights and also that they do not exceed 27Watts.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/14/made

I don't believe that anyone on this forum has done all the appropriate reading and cross referencing of every part of UK and EU law also UK law has lots of parts (like the 1989 vehicle regulations) that there may be different more recent updated versions of, which in other countries like Greece (where the OP of this thread is from) also come into play.

Greek authorities might be perfectly happy with you fitting a light house bulb to the roof of your car for all I know? I dunno? I don't read Greek and I'm not about to start investigating! But one thing that's for sure, it's not for me or anyone else on this forum to tell the OP they are 100% not allowed to fit some HID lights to their fiat and what else might be required under Greek laws.
My experiance of Greece is that despite it being law the police don't care if you don't wear a crash helmet on a motor bike or that you don't follow the road signs and markings when driving around the busiest parts of athens, I'm sure they won't be bothered about some OEM head lights being retro fitted, nor I suspect are they pulling people's head light bulbs out to check if they are E marked EU approved bulbs.

I've questioned many times before how many cheap Chineese made bulbs bought online with E marks on them are actually approved?

AndyRKett said:

While they are covered under the 1989 regs there is only a requirement for the lamp/lens of the light to carry an approval mark but not the bulb its self.
There is only a requirement that you have no more than two reversing lights and also that they do not exceed 27Watts.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/14/made

I don't believe that anyone on this forum has done all the appropriate reading and cross referencing of every part of UK and EU law also UK law has lots of parts (like the 1989 vehicle regulations) that there may be different more recent updated versions of, which in other countries like Greece (where the OP of this thread is from) also come into play.

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Well I try to take legalities / requirements seriously so do "the best I can" in research AND insurance notification/declartion. In reality both go hand in hand.

So for the reversing light bulb to LED I:

1) checked as much legal/regulation info as I could
2) asked/notified the insurance company who cleared with the undwriters

2) is important as techincally any modification to a car from manufacturer's specifications, fitments etc. is a "notifiable" requirement

When I was doing motorsport I had to declare those required motorsport labelling/markins such as "Ignition Off" direction, negative battery lead marked in yellow, etc. At time of doing all the research it was made clear to me that putting these items, or go farster stripes, or those "Tow Here" etc. stuff on your car can/do make your vehicle a higher risk to theft, joy riding, etc. thus putting the insurance company a higher risk for which they may want or be entitled to charge a higher premium for OR the option to revoke/decline insurance.

When in public forums I've always tried to point out the facts, provide info, etc. BUT ULTIMATELY just if I say X or Y is OK or not OK then it is up to the user to do their research, check with their insurance company, etc.

Personally I'm satified that my reversing lamp bub to LED change is perfectly legal AND covered/notofied to my insurance company. I may have gone OTT for a poxy reversing lamp change but hey that is the way I work. I'm certainly not going start messing with DRLs and other manditory vehicle lighting.

My 500X DRLs are fine as I'm concerned bar one aspect. The bulb holders are rubbish and prone to melting (I have spares in stock). Now 5W LED lamps would solve this problem and I could create a miriad of arguements to legitimise fitting LED replacements.

On this latter point you mention that many of these old regulations were basically done before the advent of LEDs in vehicle lighting. This is true but you have to bear in mind that even old outdated laws/regulations still on the statute books are Enforceable and Punishable. And the lines of defence "ignorance" or if you want to double your punishent "the law is an ass" don't carry any weight or forgiveness. Yes it sucks for some trivial stuff but life sucks anyway

s130 said:

Now 5W LED lamps would solve this problem and I could create a miriad of arguements to legitimise fitting LED replacements.

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Don’t say this you’ll set them off again !!

When I talk about old laws what I am getting at is just because in the uk we don’t have newer rules this is a world wide forum and other countries may have much more up to date regulations that apply to the OP in this case. Anyone mentions LEDs and every loses there minds about the law but no one bothers to take any notice of where the person posting is actually from

AndyRKett said:

Anyone mentions LEDs and every loses there minds about the law but no one bothers to take any notice of where the person posting is actually from

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Agreed

It does help though when people put their "Location" info into their profile so people can see when they post. Often it is only far later on that the country of OP becomes apparent.

Led lights fitted into a halogen housing are now a MOT failure
As of the update yesterday

At least for main and dipped beams

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-ins...s/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment


Ofc in projectors light's they will likely never been able to tell as they can't see the bulbs or remove any changes covers bits still..

chris3234 said:

Led lights fitted into a halogen housing are now a MOT failure
As of the update yesterday

At least for main and dipped beams

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-ins...s/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment


Ofc in projectors light's they will likely never been able to tell as they can't see the bulbs or remove any changes covers bits still..

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It’s still going to be a grey area for some cars, I remember several late 90s jap imports being fitted with HIDs in conventional reflector lamps and there are plenty of after market head lights which are fitted with HID set ups so they are not a conversion but clearly the ‘car’ will have been converted. At least it will get rid of a lot of dodgy HID sets being fitted to otherwise standard cars and then blinding everyone

And for reversing light(s):

4.6.1. Condition and operation
You must inspect all reversing lamps fitted to vehicles first used from 1 September 2009 other than quadricycles and three-wheeled vehicles.

Reversing lamps must show a white light to the rear. On some vehicles it may be necessary to have the engine running before the reversing lamps will work.

At least one reversing lamp must be fitted.

Buses over 6m long may have 4 reversing lamps which may be:

all showing white light to the rear
2 showing white light to the rear and one on each side
Defect Category
(a) A reversing lamp inoperative Major
(b) A reversing lamp lens defective Major
(c) A reversing lamp:

(i) not securely attached
(ii) likely to become detached

Minor
Major
4.6.2. Compliance with requirements
You must inspect all reversing lamps fitted to vehicles first used from 1 September 2009 other than quadricycles and Class 3 vehicles.

Reversing lamps must show a white light to the rear. On some vehicles it may be necessary to have the engine running before the reversing lamps will work.

At least one reversing lamp must be fitted.

Buses over 6m long may have 4 reversing lamps which may be:

all showing white light to the rear
2 showing white light to the rear and 1 on each side

No requirement for the reversing lamps to be of any use then.

With the learner car, I have on past vehicles fitted an additional lamp, under the rear bumper, to light the kerb edge for the left reverse. Haven't bothered with this latest car, as I don't do many learners any more, and the left reverse no longer part of the test, so we can teach a safe and quicker reverse, with less emphasis on accuracy.

The previous cars were all less than ayear old, so no MOT requirement. I wonder how an MOT tester would cope with one though.

s130 said:

And for reversing light(s):

4.6.1. Condition and operation
You must inspect all reversing lamps fitted to vehicles first used from 1 September 2009 other than quadricycles and three-wheeled vehicles.

Reversing lamps must show a white light to the rear. On some vehicles it may be necessary to have the engine running before the reversing lamps will work.

At least one reversing lamp must be fitted.

Buses over 6m long may have 4 reversing lamps which may be:

all showing white light to the rear
2 showing white light to the rear and one on each side
Defect Category
(a) A reversing lamp inoperative Major
(b) A reversing lamp lens defective Major
(c) A reversing lamp:

(i) not securely attached
(ii) likely to become detached

Minor
Major
4.6.2. Compliance with requirements
You must inspect all reversing lamps fitted to vehicles first used from 1 September 2009 other than quadricycles and Class 3 vehicles.

Reversing lamps must show a white light to the rear. On some vehicles it may be necessary to have the engine running before the reversing lamps will work.

At least one reversing lamp must be fitted.

Buses over 6m long may have 4 reversing lamps which may be:

all showing white light to the rear
2 showing white light to the rear and 1 on each side

Click to expand...

Reversing lights have been part of the not test for a couple of years now it's not a news addition

s130 said:

And for reversing light(s):

4.6.1. Condition and operation
You must inspect all reversing lamps fitted to vehicles first used from 1 September 2009 other than quadricycles and three-wheeled vehicles.

Reversing lamps must show a white light to the rear. On some vehicles it may be necessary to have the engine running before the reversing lamps will work.

At least one reversing lamp must be fitted.

Buses over 6m long may have 4 reversing lamps which may be:

all showing white light to the rear
2 showing white light to the rear and one on each side
Defect Category
(a) A reversing lamp inoperative Major
(b) A reversing lamp lens defective Major
(c) A reversing lamp:

(i) not securely attached
(ii) likely to become detached

Minor
Major
4.6.2. Compliance with requirements
You must inspect all reversing lamps fitted to vehicles first used from 1 September 2009 other than quadricycles and Class 3 vehicles.

Reversing lamps must show a white light to the rear. On some vehicles it may be necessary to have the engine running before the reversing lamps will work.

At least one reversing lamp must be fitted.

Buses over 6m long may have 4 reversing lamps which may be:

all showing white light to the rear
2 showing white light to the rear and 1 on each side

Click to expand...

Reversing lights have been part of the not test for a couple of years now it's not a new addition

This is going a little off topic but 500X owners should look at replacing their reversing lamp with a brighter LED device.

I did this AFTER scraping the paint on my rear bumper, at night, when the reversing sensors (which I never rely on) did not pick up what I could not see with the illumination available against rearward headlamps opposing me. A rare event but I then did trial reversing procedures at night and concluded the reversing light was pants and only fitted to comply with homologation requirements and NOT real practicality/visibility issues.

A similar case in point is the later legal/homologation required high level brake light requirements. So on our Barchetta 2005 we have a high level brake light only inches above the real brake lights mounted on the boot lid.

I quite like this "B" feature (many don't) but in reality for road safety/visibility it adds little above and beyond!