Is this a record? I bought my 30th Fiat 500 today!
General Fiat 500 number 30
- Thread starter typecastboy
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General Fiat 500 number 30
Doesn't seem all that long ago we were all telling you, you didn't know what you where doing and probably mad to take on your first car, now you probably are the most experienced 500 owning member of the forum lol.
30 cars saved from the scrap heap and 29ish, smiling faces of new owners who got just what they wanted a little cheaper.
30 cars saved from the scrap heap and 29ish, smiling faces of new owners who got just what they wanted a little cheaper.
I do worry about how many of them will actually protect their occupants properly in the event of an accident or how many are repaired properly full stop. Sorry, but it has to be said.
I'd agree, it needs to be said, and I share your concern about the roadworthiness of crash repaired cars in general.
That said, there's no denying that @typecastboy has made a huge contribution to the knowledgebase on this forum, and continues to be one of the most generous members here, both in terms of the information he's freely shared and the parts he's given away. He both deserves and gets my thanks and recognition for that.
I can see where you’re coming from as you work with engineers on new cars.
However there are literally thousands and thousands of cars on the road repaired in much the same way by hobbiests and specialists that are repaired to the same standards as typecastboys cars.
Our last mini was in a very heavy accident last year and is already back on the road, despite being written off, that was a 2015 car that broadsided a people carrier @50mph, and non of the airbags deployed so even new cars are not perfect
These days your can’t sell a category car without disclosing it to the new owners and many people will happily pay a lot less to get the car they want and take that risk, sadly people’s purse strings are tight and they are being squeezed daily, they need a reliable newer car but can’t afford new prices.
Just think of the monumental waste of sending 30 cars to be broken up and destroyed which will otherwise carry on, hopefully for several more years to come.
Other countries are considerably less sensitive than we are hear about cars, people will patch things up year after year and scrape it through the next MOT and keep an old car going for deccades, that we would have scrapped long ago here.
But again in the context of what you do for a living it’s also important people keep buying new cars.
As long as chassis rails (designed to collapse, once) are not bent and restraightened, I really can’t see how repairs (by replacing body panels, bumpers, crossmembers) will in any way affect the safety of the vehicle. Ensuring that there are good brakes, good steering, good tyres - far more important. Why should typecastboy have this shadow of doubt cast over him?
-Alex
-Alex
This is the sort of thing Typecastboy does.
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/417082-banging-out-dent-spare-wheel-well.html
So I stand by my comment.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, recently typecastboy was helping someone who wanted to put a facelift wheel and bag in a pre-facelift car.
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/458257-change-airbag-configuration-airbag-ecu-disable-stage-two.html
Sometimes in a rush to be helpful, some people don’t stop to consider whether people should actually be doing what they’re asking people how to do. Read the posts I posted in that thread and you’ll see why the OPs request should have gone unanswered...
A little unfair, given this was his first car and first post on the forum, over 3 years ago, I'd say after 30 cars things have changed a little in his approach to these things.
Again a little unfair, he was asking as many questions as he was answering, and did take something from that discussion, I'd rather someone who listens and learns as part of a forum like this, than someone which a sledge hammer and a "that'll do" attitude to bodging cars back onto the road.
The car after its fixed is sold as a Category..., the new owner is also obliged to insure the car declaring its previous repair, so in this instance the owner and the insurance company are fully aware of the risks involved and its dealt with appropriately.
There are plenty of people who have an accident, and don't declare it to the insurance company, not wanting to admit to the accident and have their mate nail it back together with little consideration for anyone or anything other than how cheaply it can be done.
I'd agree with all that's been said about environmental responsibility and waste, but that can't ever justify returning an unsafe car to the road (and I'm not suggesting that anyone here is deliberately doing that).
Rather than attacking someone who's made a significant contribution here, perhaps we should save our venom for the real villains of the piece.
Noone has yet said anything about the manufacturers who set safety-critical parts prices at levels so high that many otherwise sound cars become economically unrepairable without resorting to the grey market; if SRS components were priced closer to their actual cost of production, then perhaps much of the trade in secondhand parts of dubious provenance would disappear. The cynic in me sees a link between the need to promote new car sales and the pricing of parts needed to safely keep existing cars on the road.
Rather than attacking someone who's made a significant contribution here, perhaps we should save our venom for the real villains of the piece.
Noone has yet said anything about the manufacturers who set safety-critical parts prices at levels so high that many otherwise sound cars become economically unrepairable without resorting to the grey market; if SRS components were priced closer to their actual cost of production, then perhaps much of the trade in secondhand parts of dubious provenance would disappear. The cynic in me sees a link between the need to promote new car sales and the pricing of parts needed to safely keep existing cars on the road.
A private seller doesn’t have to disclose a write off though. If asked and aware of the history, they are required to disclose it.
If you read the first post, he doesn’t come across as someone who listens, when being told about how the boot floor is part of the crash structure, he was happily simply to straighten it out and make it look nice rather than doing it properly, crash structures really are “one and done” things.
Just for the record I have declared every one as a write off and have taken before and after photos of every one all of which are offered to show.
Which I can only applaud you for if I’m honest. That’s what I’d like to see if I was buying a written off car.
Thanks for the example and the explanation; fair enough - wasn’t meaning to argue with you and I agree with what’s been said. Definitely, that was a situation where the rear crash strength would be compromised. It is a worthwhile reminder.
I’m fairly certain that numerous other rebuilds from typecastboy since then have not involved structural damage or repair.
Let’s move on
-Alex
Unfortunately I don’t deal with the pricing of spare parts or anything like that so I couldn’t comment in an informed manner.
You’ve touched on an important note there, the trade in dubious spare parts is a troubling one. Bilstein recently posted on their site that a lot of “new” air suspension components on eBay are merely old parts which have a few plastic covers replaced and cheap repairs done before being sold as new. I rather suspect that the same thing happens with airbags all the time. Worrying to say the least -> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7926653/Second-hand-airbag-sales-explosion.html
Problem with bags is that the only way to test them is to detonate them...
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Thanks for the example and the explanation; fair enough - wasn’t meaning to argue with you and I agree with what’s been said. Definitely, that was a situation where the rear crash strength would be compromised. It is a worthwhile reminder.
I’m fairly certain that numerous other rebuilds from typecastboy since then have not involved structural damage or repair.
Let’s move on
-Alex
No arguments, only discussions
Simple repairs are simple, if no airbags have deployed and all you need to do is replace bolt on components then there’s little to go wrong, when airbags are deployed it gets a bit more complicated and there’s the potential for someone to unwittingly put a potentially dangerous car out there.
Shazan
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Whilst I agree in principal about the safety of a cat car and pitfalls some people have endured, nowadays there are ways to check the repairs are done to the standard required. If a car is registered in a cat,the buyer would be wise to have it inspected and not just take the word of the seller. Where as dealers have to tell what damage was done and provide full details of repairs by law private sellers are not obliged to. It’s important therefore to use common sense. I think those such as the OP are providing a fantastic service and well done you !! Your making many people happy with a lovely little safe car [emoji16]
Are there ways to tell though?
How can you tell the difference between a boot floor that’s been pulled back into shape and been repainted and given a nice coat of underseal and one that says been cut out, had a new floor welded in correctly?
How can you tell whether an airbag is genuine and not refurbed to the point that it plugs into a safety computer and reports that it’s OK, but won’t fire correctly in the event of an accident?
The truth of the matter is that it’s not easy to look over a car and tell whether it’s been repaired to the correct standard.
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A competent inspector would probably spot a panel beaten boot floor, but there's no way to fully test airbag functionality, which is why the code of practice for motor vehicle salvage requires such parts to be destroyed and never reused, irrespective of the category of the salvage.
However, a quick search on ebay will show that the reuse of used SRS components is widespread and that the code of practice is often not followed. It's generally recognised within the industry that effectively stopping the practice of reusing SRS parts will require a change in legislation.
The SRS is a system of last resort; if it fails in the critical case, there's no backstop and you're dead. Taking chances by replacing SRS parts with salvage of unknown pedigree is, quite literally, gambling with someone's life.
I've seen the results of one real-world study which tested used airbag components to destruction and found an average failure rate of one in 200, even after being checked beforehand using all known methods short of destroying them.
Even getting access to the technical information necessary to work safely on these systems is problematic, as we've seen in other threads. Manufacturers change component versions and specifications from time to time; how is someone outside the dealer network able to verify the interoperability of a set of secondhand parts manufactured to different specifications at different times?
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I agree to a degree, however the one you pointed out over 3 years ago was very minor. It was my first one and it was a learning curve. I don’t touch ones that have had crumpled boots anymore. I was lucky with that one it was very minor despite your comments at the time.
I buy spares from reputable places. I have to for a start to make as sure as I can I am not buying stolen parts. I buy from people who professionally break cars. I don’t see any problem in buying front airbags from a car that has been broken because of a rear smash. Any airbag could plug into a safety computer and not fire, doesn’t have to be a second hand one. I’ve seen plenty of cars where I have been a amazed that the bags haven’t fired and equally minor damaged cars where they have.
Two cars of the 30 I have broken up as the damage was too bad in my opinion and I would not have been happy repairing them. Some are worse than others but generally they look a lot worse than they are.
Cat cars are not for everyone, I get that, but when I sell a car to someone for getting on for half the forecourt price, where they otherwise couldn’t have afforded it, why not. I bought one once that had already been repaired but I took it apart to make sure it was ok.
I would certainly not ever put a car back on the road that wasn’t safe.
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