Hi everyone.
I have Fiat 500C 2016 1.2 DUALOGIC lounge without S/S. Any chance that somebody help me?
I want (if its posible) to upgrade to S/S.
Whan I need to do?
Thanks!

A new car.

Stop start isn't just something that you can add on, it uses several different (expensive) components including a different electrical system under the bonnet. The computers in the car have different software etc

So no you really can't just install it

Stop start probably only saves on environmental emissions while in traffic. Fuel saving virtually nothing. I'm probably one of few people with a 100% working stop start system. The silence is nice to have for 3 minutes, that's the only positive I could say.

Our 500TA is now six years old.
We bought her at three years old ........... and with a knackered S/S battery ........ but didn't know it.

The new battery is now (obviously) three years old and working perfectly as S/S.
Why?

Because i keep the battery fully charged permanently. Each and every time we get home, I connect the battery to the charger. It remains on charge 24/7 and works absolutely perfectly.

Keep it on charge,
Mick.

Wht the hell would you charge your car every night just to serve the stupid S-S?

Just buy a Nissan Leaf and be done with it...

I takes less than a minute to connect, and less than a minute to disconnect.
The car sits at the front of the house with the battery charger in the front porch. I have a long lead and a plug/socket system on the battery.

Pop the bonnet, connect, switch on.
Switch off, pop the bonnet, disconnect.
Simple as that.
£100+ for a new battery every three years? Or charge it up properly and it will last much longer. I'll report back on here as and when our's packs up, but don't hold your breath.

Stop/Start is wonderful system. The car is quiet and peaceful at junctions and traffic lights. I wish all cars had it.

Nissan Leaf eh?
Personally, I don't like them. Far too big for one thing.
Renault Zoe is a better size.

The idea of an electric car is excellent, but don't get me onto the subject of running costs!
It's cheaper to buy a petrol car and buy petrol, than buy an electric car and charge it up .......... especially if you buy a Renault.

Not done the maths on a Leaf, but the costs are prohibitive I would guess.

Regards,
Mick.

Would a much larger alternator be better to keep the battery charged? The issue being too many starts and insufficient time running TO charge?

Other cars with stop start don't have these issues, just a very poorly designed system on the 500.

I turn off the SS on the rare occasions I drive my wife's 500, I just don't think the wear on starter, battery & alternator are worth it.

Like Mick's my Twinair's S/S battery was fitted about three years ago and the system has behaved perfectly ever since, but without any additional charging.

Granted the climate here is probably kinder to batteries and I don't commute, but most trips are under 10km. in suburban traffic conditions. It may, or may not, make a difference to emissions or frugality, but I use it 'because it's there' and, after all, I've paid for it.

And I too, like the quiet when stopped.

For the OP question, you can't retro-fit S/S because of the systems involved.

John202020 said:

Would a much larger alternator be better to keep the battery charged? The issue being too many starts and insufficient time running TO charge?

Click to expand...

S/S cars have uprated alternators as well as uprated starter motors.

AndyRKett said:

Other cars with stop start don't have these issues, just a very poorly designed system on the 500.

Click to expand...

I didn't know abut that. Thanks for pointing it out. I must try and find someone with S/S in a car that's four or five years old and still on its original battery.
Our original battery is in our Clio now and works perfectly as it's a non S/S car.

Piccolo Nero e Bella said:

Like Mick's my Twinair's S/S battery was fitted about three years ago and the system has behaved perfectly ever since, but without any additional charging.

Granted the climate here is probably kinder to batteries and I don't commute, but most trips are under 10km. in suburban traffic conditions. It may, or may not, make a difference to emissions or frugality, but I use it 'because it's there' and, after all, I've paid for it.

And I too, like the quiet when stopped.

Click to expand...

What I found, is that as most of our driving are short trips, the battery never gets to full charge ........ or sufficient charge to give the full three minutes of stop cycle. By always having a fully charged battery when we go off, as soon as the engine is up to temp and the demands of the ACC aren't high, the S/S works properly. I've not noticed any better fuel consumption, but the car runs sweeter and smoother when cold.

Regards,
Mick.

Here's the thing. It's not just starter motors and batteries that take the 'hit' when using (personally a pointless) start stop system. Every car i use with S/S? I switch it off.

First of all, the saving to the environment is negligible to say the least. It has been proved that an engine pumps out it's highest emissions on start up. And we all have a key to turn the engine off if at level crossings etc.?

But the main reason is? It's a fact that modern cars are simply NOT made like cars years ago. Modern highly technical cars are (no matter what make) suffering common failures due to cheaper parts being used to keep costs down to offset the higher development costs required that will enable the makers to "keep up with the jones".

My 5 series starter failed at 90k. I have starter motors on the shelf from 80's and 90's BMWs that have in excess of 150k miles that I sell with no come backs. New stuff (despite the Bosch label) is not what it was.

Many new cars are currently suffering inherent Timing Chain issues. BMW, Merc, VAG and for some years now, Nissan micras. 30-40k mile failures are not uncommon. Yet when I strip one? The chain is no stronger than a 1959 A series mini engine. They really are cheap and nasty. Yet they are sometimes putting 200+ hp through them. Strip a 97 528 engine and the heavy duty chain is just quality through and through.

Dual mass flywheels are failing ten a penny and there's plenty of other examples.

The affect that S/S has on all of this is the initial jolt starting the car has on most components. Parts are failing without S/S let alone with it. Every time the engine shuts down, the oil pressure drops off. When restarting the oil pressure has to build again. Therefore initially, for a split second, oil pressure is low. Consistent need to have to build oil pressure can only have a negative affect. Add into this the now common extended oil changes where the oil is possibly 12k-16k old (another thing I ignore, changing it yearly / 10k max)? With my engineering head on, I just cringe!

I would actually choose a car without it rather than ever consider retro fitting the pointless system to be honest.

Very interesting post.
Thank you.

I don't consider S/S pointless and I don't consider it negligible to the environment.

The "environment" isn't just the air we breathe but also the sounds and noises we hear. If all cars could switch off their engines when waiting at traffic lights, we'd all be better off ............ car drivers, passengers, pedestrians, cyclists, everybody.

If the car engine wears out in 100,000 miles or even 200,000 miles, it's a small price to pay. Most cars go to the scrap yard well before 100,000 miles worn out or not anyway.

Long may S/S remain as far as I'm concerned.
Mick.

PS:
I have taken the bus a couple of times from park+ride into the city centre recently.
I was happy to realise, that the busses have S/S.

Excellent system.
Mick.

Mick F said:

I didn't know abut that. Thanks for pointing it out. I must try and find someone with S/S in a car that's four or five years old and still on its original battery.

Our original battery is in our Clio now and works perfectly as it's a non S/S car.

Click to expand...

Our 2012 Mini Cooper D was 4 years 6 months when we swapped it in, in February. We'd had it since nearly new (5 months old and 5000 miles) never had a single problem with the stop start system, worked perfectly for 4 years and still worked perfectly when we swapped it in, same battery and would sit happily for 3-4 minutes with the engine off in traffic before it felt the need to restart. (One glitch with the design of the mini system was if you turned off the stop start while it was stopped, it wouldn't then restart)

My 18 month old golf has now done 30k miles and no problems at all with the stop start and original battery, that will sit happily for 6-7 minutes stopped in traffic without having to restart and has no problems putting the roof up and down at the same time.

Outside of the fiat 500 start stop really isn't so much of a big issue

I turn it off. I hate it. When it actually works.

Here's a bonus with S/S.
You stop at a busy pedestrian crossing. Pedestrians cross, but when they get the read man signal, more start to cross because they just follow, not looking at the signals.
At that point, down goes the clutch, the engine restarts, pedestrians now pay attention. It is like a parting of the waves. Has worked for me every time, and lots of times. Great toy.

With the fleet training I do, we often do a circular run to assess driving style, then repeat while coaching to drive more smoothly. Often we get the opportunity to do the runs with and without S/S. Without any other changes to driving style, with S/S always returns better fuel consumption, often by 10%, although this is a short run, 20 mins mostly urban.
You would have to save a lot of fuel to pay for the extra wear on the starter, alternator and battery though, so not sure the sums add up. It looks good for governments though.

On the Fiesta 1.0 Ecoboost, it is possible to stop at the end of a fast run, and the S/S system will stop the engine immediately. No time for turbo to spool down. And with water-cooled turbo, it then boils the coolant within it. Doubtful we're saving enough fuel to buy a new turbo. S/S engineers not talking to the turbo engineers?

Just to add my tuppence worth.

I ran an Audi A1 from new for two years and the s/s was absolutely faultless and worked down to really low ambient air temperatures. Early days but my Fiat 500 s/s is faultless too. For the past two years I've run a BMW 1 Series from new and the s/s over the past 5 months has become temperamental.

I suspect that initial battery condition is part of the issue. My Audi and Fiat 500 were factory orders so had fresh batteries from my ownership and the BMW was new ex-stock so may have been sitting for a period of time before first use. Either way, you really don't want to know how much an AGM S/S Battery is for a BMW when it's out of warranty.......

portland_bill said:

On the Fiesta 1.0 Ecoboost, it is possible to stop at the end of a fast run, and the S/S system will stop the engine immediately. No time for turbo to spool down. And with water-cooled turbo, it then boils the coolant within it. Doubtful we're saving enough fuel to buy a new turbo. S/S engineers not talking to the turbo engineers?

Click to expand...

Does the Fiesta not keep the water pump on after the engine has stopped like most other modern turbo charged engines?

Is there anyone, who can give a definitive answer as to how much fuel they've actually saved vs keeping it switched off, not a guess a proper comparison?