The sun was shining, I was at a loose end, so I thought I'd check the hatch wiring. There's absolutely no issue with ours - TA85 23,000miles - but I thought it would be best to have a shufti BEORE they break.

No matter how I pulled and wiggled the loom, I couldn't get enough of it out to peel off the felt wrapping to see the wires. Yes, I did disconnect the battery before I had a pull!

The felt wrapping seems to be wrapped from the top, so the only way I would be able to get it off would be to cut it. I didn't try from the body end, just the hatch end.

How should I go from here?
Pull harder?
Leave well enough alone, or continue to try and/or cut the felt wrapping off?

Regards to all,
Mick.

I would leave well alone. Is that felt wrapping something that Fiat added when the problem became apparent? I do t recall seeing it in a 2009 car I had

Ok.
Tomorrow maybe - weather permitting - I'll take a photograph.

It seems that the main loom is wrapped, then an inch up it, it splits into two "legs" and the wrapping is laced on them too as a whole wrapped system.

Because of the two legs, the thickness is wider than the hole in which it emerges. It's as if the wrapping was done AFTER the loom was made and then threaded through the hatch orifice/hole.

Dunno really, just a novice at this!

Regards,
Mick.

Finally got round to taking a photograph.

I've seen other photographs of other 500's and I see that they have exposed the wires. I cannot for the life of me see how I could expose the wires on mine without using a Stanley Knife or some-such to cut the wrapping.

Attached photograph attempts to show what ours is like. I've pulled the cable loom as far out as it will go. You can see that the loom divides into two, and it's too thick to pull out of the hole. The wrapping appears to be wrapped from the top downwards, so I can't unwrap it.

Advice?
Leave well alone, or get the knife out?

Thanks,
Mick.

Mick F said:

Finally got round to taking a photograph.

I've seen other photographs of other 500's and I see that they have exposed the wires. I cannot for the life of me see how I could expose the wires on mine without using a Stanley Knife or some-such to cut the wrapping.

Attached photograph attempts to show what ours is like. I've pulled the cable loom as far out as it will go. You can see that the loom divides into two, and it's too thick to pull out of the hole. The wrapping appears to be wrapped from the top downwards, so I can't unwrap it.

Advice?
Leave well alone, or get the knife out?

Thanks,
Mick.

Click to expand...

the felt is doing it's job,
personally - don't think you'd gain anything by removing this 1 layer of "protection"

only time I would remove it , is to remedy a fault / issue , and armed with a cable repair kit,
Charlie

Yes, the felt must be doing its job.

I wonder if ours has an "improved" protection? (61 plate Sept 2011)
Maybe the earlier ones were not so well protected?

However, from what I've read on here, it's not the protection, but the continual bending/twisting that does the damage.

I also wonder, that if the cables are wrapped up tightly enough, the whole thing could be better able to withstand the bending/twisting?

I really don't know.

Thanks,
Mick.

Does any one know if these wires are damaged they would cause the engine management light to show and cause the engine to run poorly.

123barney said:

Does any one know if these wires are damaged they would cause the engine management light to show and cause the engine to run poorly.

Click to expand...

If there's a short or a stray live feed in the loom, then anything is possible and the rear hatch wiring should be the first thing you chack on any 500 with any electrical problem - just be sure to disconnect the battery first to minimise the risk of further damage. It's both pointless and potentially dangerous to run diagnostics before physically checking the wiring.

That said, there have been several posts reporting airbag warnings following loom failure, but so far none that have definitively implicated this in an EML fault, so I'd say the balance of probability is that the cause lies elsewhere. The hatch wiring is still the first thing to check, though - just don't get your hopes up that this will solve your particular problem.

Loom faults can, in the worst case, have serious and unpredictable consequences. A wiring loom fault was thought to be responsible for the loss of the prototype Bristol Britannia in 1957 with all 15 souls on board. I wonder if Fiat will take this issue more seriously if someone loses their life as a result of an airbag failing to deploy following loom failure?

If the 500 were an aircraft, it'd be grounded until a definitive fix for this was developed, and all existing vehicles modified.

If FIAT's were 'grounded' for every such fault they'd never fly at all...

I noticed today that my 500C boot wiring's wrapper is splitting from the boot-lid end, though the wiring so exposed looks to be OK so far. There's no rubber conduit on the 500C and the cabling is very taut across the edge of the lid when it's open. I notice that my wife's 'C' has twice the length of exposed cabling and it's clipped to the hinge bracket so perhaps FIAT has at least addressed the problem in the convertible.

jrkitching said:

I wonder if Fiat will take this issue more seriously if someone loses their life as a result of an airbag failing to deploy following loom failure?

Click to expand...

Not if GM's ignition switch is anything to go by.

Mick F said:

Attached photograph attempts to show what ours is like. I've pulled the cable loom as far out as it will go. You can see that the loom divides into two, and it's too thick to pull out of the hole. The wrapping appears to be wrapped from the top downwards, so I can't unwrap it.

Advice?
Leave well alone, or get the knife out?

Click to expand...

Still would like advice on this.

Leave well alone .............. or get the knife out?
Thanks,
Mick.

Mick F said:

Still would like advice on this.

Leave well alone .............. or get the knife out?
Thanks,
Mick.

Click to expand...

I'd be half inclined to leave well alone unless something goes tats up. There's no point (at least that I see) from prying it or pulling it unless something is needed to be done.

It's a tough job a) getting the wiring off safely (b) getting it all back on properly and in a way that won't damage it in future. Besides, not sure you need a knife (i assume you mean for the rubber).

That and it was obviously a very prevalent problem on earlier 500s (mine had years of boot up and down courier work, literally 20+ times a day) and the wiring lasted 5 years before breaking.

Noxide said:

I'd be half inclined to leave well alone unless something goes tats up. There's no point (at least that I see) from prying it or pulling it unless something is needed to be done.

Click to expand...

My take on fixing anything before it actually fails is that it all depends on the potential for collateral damage. As yet, we have only suspicion, not proof, that hatch wiring failure can trigger electronic component failure (most notably the airbag ECU); and somewhat stronger suspicion that a proxi alignment and ECU reset may in some cases be needed after replacement.

So if you leave it until it fails, there's the possibility it may cost you more and take longer to fix than if you preempt matters by inspecting, or (better), replacing the critical section now. If it does take out the airbag ECU and you give the repair to a franchised dealer, it'll likely cost four figures to fix. If everything resets (or can be reset with MES), then you can just fix it yourself and be on your way.

Personally I'd replace the wiring now with something more durable, because that's the safest option. I'd no more use a 5yr old 500 with its original hatch wiring than I'd use one with its original cambelt. I wouldn't bother inspecting it; if you have to go poking, prodding and unwrapping, the inspection itself could trigger a failure.

Noxide said:

........... not sure you need a knife (i assume you mean for the rubber).

Click to expand...

There is now way to get at the wiring unless I cut the felt/rubber sheath. The whole thing will not come out far enough to find the end of the wrapping. It is wrapped VERY securely.

jrkitching said:

Personally I'd replace the wiring now with something more durable, because that's the safest option. I'd no more use a 5yr old 500 with its original hatch wiring than I'd use one with its original cambelt. I wouldn't bother inspecting it; if you have to go poking, prodding and unwrapping, the inspection itself could trigger a failure.

Click to expand...

This is my take on it too. I just need to set aside a day to do it with the half-expectation that I could come unstuck and need a few days.

For the time being, I'm leaving well alone ................. that is unless I pluck up the courage (and time) to do the job.

Thanks guys,
Mick.

I replaced the boot wiring in my 3/2011 TA after reading what jrkitching posted (Thanks for):

"Maybelline has thrown a hissy fit"

fiatforum.com/showthread.php?p=4063061

What happened before?

It started in winter with an single warning message: "Airbag failure", which never reoccured.
In summer the boot illumination failed.

Since at this time the car was at dealer for wishbone replacement, it has been fixed at same time (wire broken they told me).

Later I decided to replace the complete wiring after jrkitching posted what I mentioned above, to avoid to run in such situation.

After removing the outside rubber tube, I looked at the wiring:
Several wires had been wrapped with self adhesive plastic tape and one new wire had been inserted (all done by the dealer). A several thicker wires the insulation was widely damaged.

All that did not look really reliable.

So I replaced it by the well known kit within 3h.

After I am feeling much safer, driving my TA, what is each time real fun ....

LarsLarsen

Here some pictures I would like to add:

Thanks muchly for the photos.

However, HOW did you get the wrapping off?
Where is the wrapping in your photographs?
Mine seems very different to yours ................ look at my photograph, above.

A little addition ..................
We're actually on holiday in Marseille ............... with Wifi and without the 500TA.
Home next week. Meanwhile, taking it easy in the sunshine.

Cheers!
Mick.

Mick F said:

....

However, HOW did you get the wrapping off?

Where is the wrapping in your photographs?

....

Click to expand...

I did the job after my dealer repaired the boot light.
I suspect that he already removed the wrapping to insert a replacement wire for the broken wire.

As you can see on first photo he wrapped some wires with plastic adhesive tape to fix the broken insulation (not very professional and without telling me).

LarsLarsen

PS:
Sorry, just re-re-read JR's thread and see that I have to compress the flexy rubber hose downwards, as any damage would be INSIDE the hose and not above it where I was thinking it would be.

I'll check it out again next week when we get home.

Mick.

Mick F said:

Still would like advice on this.

Leave well alone .............. or get the knife out?
Thanks,
Mick.

Click to expand...

see post #5