Calling on the experts!
Can anyone ID this 500?


I know it's been modded but aren't those indicator things from an N?

Although the back looks D?

Looks like a D that has had N panels put on the front and F Tail lights

The N tail lights are tiny and the D tail lights should have aluminium similar to a fiat 600

BambinoClassic said:

Calling on the experts!
Can anyone ID this 500?
I know it's been modded but aren't those indicator things from an N?
Although the back looks D?

Click to expand...

It's an N but I'm not going to tell you why..... (just yet):devil::devil::devil:

Lets see if anyone can work out why it is...,

Bigvtwin996 said:

It's an N but I'm not going to tell you why..... (just yet):devil::devil::devil:

Lets see if anyone can work out why it is...,

Click to expand...

RHD but with LHD wiper arrangement?

fiat500 said:

RHD but with LHD wiper arrangement?

Click to expand...

Good call... but early RHD D's also had the same arrangement... (not sure if later ones did)
It is really hard to tell why believe me...

there are two features of the car... the one is not definite.. but the other is an N only feature that would be not so easy to swap onto a D.

As pointed out panels and lights are easily swapped during a resto..

Bigvtwin996 said:

there are two features of the car... the one is not definite.. but the other is an N only feature that would be not so easy to swap onto a D.

Click to expand...

Come on...I've got things to do...the rear windscreen has to be one on them...it looks bigger.
What does it matter anyway on an old banger like that? I thought they couldn't afford proper roof anyway...cheap and nasty things.

By the way...I'm not all that keen on the mongrel nature of the car here... would someone be thinking of buying it?

Enjoyable banter!

Goodness, I had no idea there might be something hard to spot / intricate that's apparent in those pics. Clearly a niche topic as google isn't very helpful.

It looks like it has windscreen washers, isn't that a D thing?

I think the N rear tail lights must cause hassles wth registration here (MOT) as another N I’ve seen has put the later lights in too.

If it's an N, I was thinking of seeing what I could do to rescue it and reverse the mongrelisation. If I win the lottery...

Mornington Crescent...

I'm sorry I haven't a clue what the previous post is about so I'll ignore it.

BambinoClassic said:

If it's an N, I was thinking of seeing what I could do to rescue it and reverse the mongrelisation.

Click to expand...

If you bought the car I bet it would be worth keeping as it is. It's likely to have a bigger engine than original and to handle well, given all the other changes that are more obvious. Realistically it's a fact that most cars, including mine, are out of original spec. in some ways; it's just that visually, with the paint-scheme and mismatch in badging and the sporty wheels, in my opinion that particular car has lost much of its charm.

fiat500 said:

I'm sorry I haven't a clue what the previous post is about so I'll ignore it.

Click to expand...

I had to google it myself! "Sorry I haven't a clue" - seems quite appropriate in the context of Big Vs guessing game!

Totally agree about what they've done to this one. I'm not a stickler for original, but the charm of the 500 is its simplicity and yep I do love the original colours and skinny dangerous looking wheels

There is enough of the original car there to make it worthwhile....
especially if the price is right...

rear lights could be changed back....
up until a couple of years ago rears were scarce changing hands for £500-£750 a pair.... but repros are available.. unfortunately chromed cheap zinc alloy....
so later lights probably fitted due to lack of availability and cost


N rears are no problem with MOTs, just the same as others orange and red... just hard to find.... only US spec ones are all red....

engine is probably tweaked... and most likely a later box...

but you can always pick up an early engine/box to restore should you wish to return it to std..... you can join the game of "ohhh that's different too..."


some N's had washers... v early cars were devoid of almost anything resembling useful, hence rejected by the Italians and recalled.... that is what make the very first original cars so rare.

the details between N & D's are very subtle...

Usually the finer points are found from ownership.... when you try to locate missing bits....
It is so much easier to look under the bonnet or have a chassis number...

sometimes it is just down to how the 1/4 window opens if the view through a window is all you have...

Someone should write a book

I think it could be brought back to life. Or returned to its original way of life. Transformable!

I'm guessing from that somewhat cryptic answer that it's down to the 1/4 windows as the distinguishing feature!? Exactly how I still cannot tell

andydiver, I should have complied with the rules of play; we're back at Mornington Crescent in any case. :bang:

BambinoClassic said:

Someone should write a book

I think it could be brought back to life. Or returned to its original way of life. Transformable!

I'm guessing from that somewhat cryptic answer that it's down to the 1/4 windows as the distinguishing feature!? Exactly how I still cannot tell

Click to expand...

Everything is available on the Internet.....
just a case of a lot of research.... finding lots of pictures of different models and comparing.....

Panels etc are easy to change.... the front panel has two little air intakes, and most people would think "it's an N" the under bonnet would show if these are just for show.....

A dash shot would show the speedo, and a very early car would have a much lower top speed reading.... but it could still be an N or a D

Ashtray.... a second series D would have an Ashtray....
but no ashtray would mean it could be an N or an early D (as the first D's used N shells)
If you save the image and zoom into the passenger door through the OS window....you will just see the pivot mechanism for the 1/4 window... on D's and later cars this is inside the door itself.. on N's it is on a bracket fixed to the outside of the inner door with an aluminium cover... Sure you could fit N doors to a D... but as N doors were much harder to come by that would be an expensive and difficult task...

fiat500 said:

andydiver, I should have complied with the rules of play; we're back at Mornington Crescent in any case. :bang:

Click to expand...

Camden Town....

Now I’m confused. Up for sale here, D lights but N other stuff? Can’t work out the 1/4 window feature

BambinoClassic said:

Now I’m confused. Up for sale here, D lights but N other stuff? Can’t work out the 1/4 window feature

Click to expand...

There is no such thing as "N lights"...
N's were fitted with at least 4 different style of lights over the years of production...
You could actually say D's were fitted with N lights, as the last N's had the larger aluminuium rear lights that people associate with the D.

This car is most likely also an N... look at the pic below.. not that clear but you can see the 1/4 window hinge (yes the latching mechanism is different as well):


these do actually break off the door and up until recently there was nothing you could do... so a popular change was to actually fit later 1/4 windows... but on this car you can see the indentation on the inner door where the swivel was mounted.

N doors and windows have a lot of other differences so to find a pair to use and put on a D is unlikely.. sure anything is possible...

The dash does not have the two lights to the one side of the D steering wheel.


Also it was one a fixed roof and the roof was taken off... easy tell tale sign are the holes in the roof to actually attach the roof and also the original short roof mounting points are present..

Bigvtwin996 said:

This car is most likely also an N... look at the pic below.. not that clear but you can see the 1/4 window hinge (yes the latching mechanism is different as well):

Click to expand...

That' actually very interesting and enlightening information.

I know it's sacrilege to say this but it sounds like the very early N's, clearly collectable, are probably not all that useful as cars and never were. The later N's obviously have the collectability factor and are a bit more useful, but some of the fun seems to be in having one with the unique N-features. From what I'm gradually picking up here, the very late N's were starting to morph onto D's and the early D's were fairly similar to a late N?

....and then they invented the F and all the problems were sorted.....or not?:bang:

fiat500 said:

That' actually very interesting and enlightening information.
I know it's sacrilege to say this but it sounds like the very early N's, clearly collectable, are probably not all that useful as cars and never were.

Click to expand...

What have you said!?!

But absolutely really interesting information, I can see how someone would get uber nerdy about these cars. For me it's the long roof, funny side indicators and front vent things that really make it an 'N' that I would want.

fiat500 said:

That' actually very interesting and enlightening information.

I know it's sacrilege to say this but it sounds like the very early N's, clearly collectable, are probably not all that useful as cars and never were. The later N's obviously have the collectability factor and are a bit more useful, but some of the fun seems to be in having one with the unique N-features. From what I'm gradually picking up here, the very late N's were starting to morph onto D's and the early D's were fairly similar to a late N?

....and then they invented the F and all the problems were sorted.....or not?:bang:

Click to expand...

there are less than 10 of the Original "Un modified due to recall" 500Ns known these actually change hand for unbelievable amounts of money (advertised for 70,000€+) so yes they are simply collectable due to rarity, my mate had a one owner un-restored mint example and did drive it occasionally, but in the Streets of Turin..... you would never leave it parked in the street...
The late 57-58 cars are what I think most people think of as a N ... the long sun roof, small rear lights, wing indicators and inlet grills above the bumpers.. Not really that different to the early cars in terms of performance etc just a little better finished..
Yes the cross over between N and D is clear when you compare the last N's and first D's the biggest change was the engine, the extra performance that was gained from the Sport version of the N passed on to later cars when they became 499cc.
Sourcing parts is really hard to try to retain originality, a few are being remade, but it is possible to upgrade to later cars specs... and in some cases this may have been the only option...

As i have said I fond an F that had had a long roof conversion, and in a resto it is easy to fit the later front panel and wings/repeaters...
but then does t not simply join the group of cars that pretend to be what they are not.... an L covered with Scorpion Stickers, an MR2 with a load of fiberglass panels and a prancing horse...
If it is because you like the "look", people can do what they want to their cars, but are people trying to fool others?

I recently saw an Advert for a BMW z3 for over £150k...
A Recreation of something more expensive.. but who would it fool?