fiat500 said:

no sign of it at the moment I must say.......

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...well there is now.... lots of it and a fair amount inside the windscreen too. Considering the downpour we've had I think the new seal hasn't made things worse. But the solution I'm after is no rain at all inside. I don't want to start with sealant again but it looks like the physical laws of gravity and capillary action are out to defeat me if I don't. Oh for a simple problem such as bubbles in the fuel-pipe.

fiat500 said:

...well there is now.... lots of it and a fair amount inside the windscreen too. Considering the downpour we've had I think the new seal hasn't made things worse. But the solution I'm after is no rain at all inside. I don't want to start with sealant again but it looks like the physical laws of gravity and capillary action are out to defeat me if I don't. Oh for a simple problem such as bubbles in the fuel-pipe.

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I wonder if other classic suffer the same "Modern rubber" problem...
it is somewhat concerning!!
Anyone have any experience of new seals in other cars?

Bigvtwin996 said:

I wonder if other classic suffer the same "Modern rubber" problem...
it is somewhat concerning!!
Anyone have any experience of new seals in other cars?

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The modern rubber is no worse in this problem and maybe Fiat used sealant from new? I think it's an issue which must be quite common on old vehicles with rubber seals. Mine was suffering this with its first owner. My 900 van had little moulded slots in the steelwork of the window surround at this point to relieve the water but had also rotted away. When installing my double-glazing, the bottom corners used a supplied sealant for the same reason. As I say, I think it's just the Laws of Physics unfortunately.

fiat500 said:

The modern rubber is no worse in this problem and maybe Fiat used sealant from new? I think it's an issue which must be quite common on old vehicles with rubber seals. Mine was suffering this with its first owner. My 900 van had little moulded slots in the steelwork of the window surround at this point to relieve the water but had also rotted away. When installing my double-glazing, the bottom corners used a supplied sealant for the same reason. As I say, I think it's just the Laws of Physics unfortunately.

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My cars sit outside and don't seem to suffer windscreen leaks.....
With modern techniques.... I know that some screens used a special glass glue, prior to the more modern "sit on bonding"... as very little actually sticks to glass, silicon being one of those things that really does not stick that well...

perhaps worth trying a full glass bonding?


I'm convinced that these sorts of issues are where we can use "modern updates" to solve such problems...

fiat500 said:

...well there is now.... lots of it and a fair amount inside the windscreen too. Considering the downpour we've had I think the new seal hasn't made things worse. But the solution I'm after is no rain at all inside. I don't want to start with sealant again but it looks like the physical laws of gravity and capillary action are out to defeat me if I don't. Oh for a simple problem such as bubbles in the fuel-pipe.

Click to expand...

Have you just put the new seal and no sealant at all?

Vitesse said:

Have you just put the new seal and no sealant at all?

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That's it. The original sealant wasn't any use so I wanted to see how things faired when all clean and new. So I'll get a tube of the messy black stuff and immediately thinking of removing the screen again and filling the groove in the seal before fitting the glass.... splodgeness will abound.

fiat500 said:

That's it. The original sealant wasn't any use so I wanted to see how things faired when all clean and new. So I'll get a tube of the messy black stuff and immediately thinking of removing the screen again and filling the groove in the seal before fitting the glass.... splodgeness will abound.

Click to expand...

I am pretty sure even the original seals had sealant. My screen and seal were definitely original and had sealant from the factory. I think you might have been a bit optimistic putting none in at all.

The stuff I used was a real pig to get out of the caulking gun and took ages to apply. It about two hours to do the front windscreen. It’s really thick and you pump it in really deep until it comes out the top of the rubber and then squeeze the rubber down to push out anymore excess. It’s messy and worth masking off the paintwork around the screen first.

This is what I use, it was recommended by the body shop who did my paint job.

https://www.dortechdirect.co.uk/arb...MI4dGYo4_C3AIVCbTtCh0k2Q4YEAQYAiABEgL2IvD_BwE

yeas ago when dealing with kit cars, we used Silkaflex cant remember which type, but it was an adhesive type sealer, where you primed the edge of the glass.
the main reason was because of the differing thickness and rough edge of fiberglass but also the flexing of the screen surround....


but remember it sticks to anything and is not easy to remove...


I'll watch with interest..... as I was looking to use Silkaflex when replacing my screen...

Bigvtwin996 said:

.. as I was looking to use Silkaflex when replacing my screen...

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I think that Sikaflex has been developed and if it's the polyurethane sealant I'm thinking of it needs no primer now and bonds just about anything to anything. In the course of my quest to seal the screen I have used some PU but mainly the non-setting mastic. But Tony Vitesse has suggested the conventional product for this purpose. It's non- setting and relatively easy to remove the surplus. PU is a nightmare to remove and even more so once cured.
If I'm being logical and expecting it to work, the permanence of Sikaflex shouldn't worry me. Whichever product I use it's going in the glass groove before fitting the glass.

fiat500 said:

I think that Sikaflex has been developed and if it's the polyurethane sealant I'm thinking of it needs no primer now and bonds just about anything to anything. In the course of my quest to seal the screen I have used some PU but mainly the non-setting mastic. But Tony @Vitesse has suggested the conventional product for this purpose. It's non- setting and relatively easy to remove the surplus. PU is a nightmare to remove and even more so once cured.
If I'm being logical and expecting it to work, the permanence of Sikaflex shouldn't worry me. Whichever product I use it's going in the glass groove before fitting the glass.

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from what I remember silkaflex had a great technical department and/are or were really helpful....
I think most manufactures use Silkaflex for bonding screens these days..
I do remember seeing the primer recently.. and that isn't cheap!!!
worth a call or an email...

So Peter, not only are you responsible for long term engine testing,
but now you can be windscreen sealant tester...


My only input at the moment can be how to remove large tree stumps using a trolley jack and a jet wash

Vitesse said:

I think you might have been a bit optimistic putting none in at all.

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You're spot-on there.... I must be a full-time optimist given the trust I invest in that little blue buzz-box.

Vitesse said:

I am pretty sure even the original seals had sealant. My screen and seal were definitely original and had sealant from the factory. I think you might have been a bit optimistic putting none in at all.

The stuff I used was a real pig to get out of the caulking gun and took ages to apply. It about two hours to do the front windscreen. It’s really thick and you pump it in really deep until it comes out the top of the rubber and then squeeze the rubber down to push out anymore excess. It’s messy and worth masking off the paintwork around the screen first.

This is what I use, it was recommended by the body shop who did my paint job.

https://www.dortechdirect.co.uk/arb...MI4dGYo4_C3AIVCbTtCh0k2Q4YEAQYAiABEgL2IvD_BwE

Click to expand...

Vitesse said:

I think you might have been a bit optimistic putting none in at all.

Click to expand...

You're spot-on there.... I must be a full-time optimist given the trust I invest in that little blue buzz-box.

I fitted a brand new screen and a new seal, but the bottom right (looking at car from front) would not sit properly, I took it out and redid it but to no avail. I filled the seal with black sealant and as the car lives in Spain and doesn't go out in the rain I shan't worry too much.

El cargador said:

I fitted a brand new screen and a new seal, but the bottom right (looking at car from front) would not sit properly, I took it out and redid it but to no avail. I filled the seal with black sealant and as the car lives in Spain and doesn't go out in the rain I shan't worry too much.

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Being in Spain, good job it's not a plane, or then you really would have problems. [emoji3]

Bigvtwin996 said:

from what I remember silkaflex had a great technical department and/are or were really helpful....
I think most manufactures use Silkaflex for bonding screens these days..
I do remember seeing the primer recently.. and that isn't cheap!!!
worth a call or an email...

So Peter, not only are you responsible for long term engine testing,
but now you can be windscreen sealant tester...


My only input at the moment can be how to remove large tree stumps using a trolley jack and a jet wash

Click to expand...

Bigvtwin996 said:

but now you can be windscreen sealant tester...


My only input at the moment can be how to remove large tree stumps using a trolley jack and a jet wash

Click to expand...

I accept the commission.
Today I removed the screen again. It was obvious from where moisture was trapped that the leakage was under and around the glass. So I put a bead of black PU sealant in the groove for the glass, fitted the seal to the glass and then put another bead of sealant under the outer flap of the seal which bears on the bodywork. The windscreen went back in slightly more easily, possibly because the sealant gives some lubrication. There was very little mess and it cleaned off using paper-towels and panel-wipe.
The job was done and dusted in less than an hour.
Road-testing begins with a three hour journey to Durness,at the top right-hand corner of Scotland tomorrow.
PS. Good luck with stump removal.

fiat500 said:

...................
Road-testing begins with a three hour journey to Durness,at the top right-hand corner of Scotland tomorrow.
PS. Good luck with stump removal.

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we look forward to the reports..


Stumps are nothing with a trolley jack and jet wash....
the trunks measure over 2' and they come up so easily done 4 so far!!!


did you put sealer all round the seal and the glass??

Bigvtwin996 said:

we look forward to the reports..


Stumps are nothing with a trolley jack and jet wash....
the trunks measure over 2' and they come up so easily done 4 so far!!!


did you put sealer all round the seal and the glass??

Click to expand...

Off topic but need more info.... do you blast the soil away then put the trolley jack in the hole against the stump to loosen it? I have been putting that job off for about a year in my yard.

fiat500 said:

I accept the commission.
Today I removed the screen again. It was obvious from where moisture was trapped that the leakage was under and around the glass. So I put a bead of black PU sealant in the groove for the glass, fitted the seal to the glass and then put another bead of sealant under the outer flap of the seal which bears on the bodywork. .

Click to expand...

...but obviously I was too frugal with the sealant. :bang:
I drove a massively long distance today and went through some ridiculous driving rain and I was delighted to find that my old problem with water leaking around the glass is totally eliminated.........however, :bang::bang::bang:, now the rain floods in around the outside of the seal where it meets the bodywork in a way that it never used to. (Image taken when the car was moving).

FER_3569 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr

In some places the lip doesn't quite meet up with the window surround properly and in most places, when it's rolled back it becomes easy to see that the whole top of the screen has become a rain channel. So tomorrow it's back out with the sealant-gun when gallows of he black stuff will be issued.

That will be why they rust here, here & here

Franko500 said:

That will be why they rust here, here & here

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.......it used to look like that; in fact it was worse. But the screen has been out and epoxy paint has kept away the rust. It seems the most likely reason for these latest leaks is that the outside lip of the seal, which was tight and flat against the paintwork when fitted, has slightly curled away in places. Generally, the overlap with the paintwork doesn't seem enough to counter a leak and so I've slugged loads of sealant as deep as I can into the gap between the windscreen rubber and the window-frame.