Technical 2006 Panda cuts out whilst braking

[Kung Fu Panda Po]

Hello all,

My 2006 FIAT Panda Dynamic currently has a problem where the engine cuts out. It cold starts fine. Drives fine to whatever destination. Starts fine again, but then starts cutting out on the return journey.
It seems to be doing it mostly when applying the brake, but it has also occured when beginning to move like when in traffic of at lights. Most of the time it catches itself again, occasionally with the power steering light remaining on afterwards. But some of the time it doesn't kick straight back in and may need a few turns of the key to get going again.
When it originally happened a couple of weeks ago, after the fifth time of it cutting out, it wouldn't start at all. No lights on the dash and not turning over. Luckily, I was in a supermarket car park at the time, and a good samaritan gave me a jump and I managed to get it back home. I had an auto-electrician come out to have a look at it, but of course it didn't show any of the issues I'd been having, and the only things that flagged up were battery related.
New battery fitted. Other than briefly seeing the power steering warning light on start up, it seemed to be working fine again. This was until yesterday, when it cut out again, on approach to a motorway on-ramp. Sat there, hazards on, with a queue of traffic behind me, trying to start it back up. It took several attempts but it did eventually come back to life. But it happened again, and again. Six more times in total before I made it home. Each time it cut out I was either slowing down, or moving off.
The auto-electrician is coming out again this week.

Any ideas? Anything I should point him in the direction of? There's a good chance none of the issues will happen when he's looking at it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi,

worth replacing the main earth cable.. Chunky black cable from Battery to Chassis to motor

They can corrode internally.. And the flexi while driving can make and break the circuit

 

[Kung Fu Panda Po]

Hi,

worth replacing the main earth cable.. Chunky black cable from Battery to Chassis to motor

They can corrode internally.. And the flexi while driving can make and break the circuit

Thanks. I'll get that checked out

 

[varesecrazy]

Thanks. I'll get that checked out

It's a common failure

 

[A3jeroen]

And look at the hatchwiring.

gr J

 

[rmjbn1]

Sounds suspiciously similar to my symptoms with a failing crankshaft position sensor.

Can you scan for stored error codes? P0335 would all but confirm it.

I wouldn't normally advise blindly changing parts, but i sort of wish i had with mine, wasted time and money at two different garages to confirm what I already suspected (first garage didn't find any relevant codes, diagnosed faulty ECU!)

It's only a £15 part and one bolt to change, so I would be tempted. They rely on a magnet to work, my old one wouldn't stick to anything. Maybe they just go weak over time.

Dreaded P0335 Crank Sensor fault code | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Dreaded P0335 Crank Sensor fault code Panda 4x4 2005 (1.2 8v?). only done 6500 miles as is on a small island, owned since new in the family so no previous history of issues I have been reading many posts on this, it has been into the garage for diagnosis so I will give you my story and updates...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[Kung Fu Panda Po]

And look at the hatchwiring.

gr J

The hatch mechanism was disconnected about three years ago. It kept unlocking whilst driving and was primary suspect for battery drain. I have to unlock the boot from the inside which is manageable.

 

[Kung Fu Panda Po]

Sounds suspiciously similar to my symptoms with a failing crankshaft position sensor.

Can you scan for stored error codes? P0335 would all but confirm it.

I wouldn't normally advise blindly changing parts, but i sort of wish i had with mine, wasted time and money at two different garages to confirm what I already suspected (first garage didn't find any relevant codes, diagnosed faulty ECU!)

It's only a £15 part and one bolt to change, so I would be tempted. They rely on a magnet to work, my old one wouldn't stick to anything. Maybe they just go weak over time.

Dreaded P0335 Crank Sensor fault code | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Dreaded P0335 Crank Sensor fault code Panda 4x4 2005 (1.2 8v?). only done 6500 miles as is on a small island, owned since new in the family so no previous history of issues I have been reading many posts on this, it has been into the garage for diagnosis so I will give you my story and updates...

www.fiatforum.com

Thanks. I'll mention that when he comes to take a look

 

[rmjbn1]

The hatch mechanism was disconnected about three years ago. It kept unlocking whilst driving

Mine also did that when I got it.

Typically caused by the handle sticking due to build-up of road muck.

Manually pushing the handle away from the switch should stop it releasing, but it would be a good time to take the handle off and clean it:

How to remove and replace electric tailgate handle

OK, the long-awaited 'How to' guide on replacing the tailgate handle for Panda's with the misbehaving electric release. (This guide will also let you locate the plug to temporarily disable the boot release when it starts playing up --follow steps...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[koalar]

Very frustrating

Hello all,

My 2006 FIAT Panda Dynamic currently has a problem where the engine cuts out. It cold starts fine. Drives fine to whatever destination. Starts fine again, but then starts cutting out on the return journey.

Sounds temperature related then

It seems to be doing it mostly when applying the brake, but it has also occured when beginning to move like when in traffic of at lights. Most of the time it catches itself again, occasionally with the power steering light remaining on afterwards.

It catches itself, does this mean there is a brief pause in power then without turning the key or dipping the clutch it start working again

But some of the time it doesn't kick straight back in and may need a few turns of the key to get going again.
When it originally happened a couple of weeks ago, after the fifth time of it cutting out, it wouldn't start at all. No lights on the dash and not turning over. Luckily, I was in a supermarket car park at the time, and a good samaritan gave me a jump and I managed to get it back home.

No lights on the dash at all nothing, it's unlikely to be the battery, or earth lead at this point

I had an auto-electrician come out to have a look at it, but of course it didn't show any of the issues I'd been having, and the only things that flagged up were battery related.
New battery fitted. Other than briefly seeing the power steering warning light on start up, it seemed to be working fine again. This was until yesterday, when it cut out again, on approach to a motorway on-ramp.

So moving the cables or the fresh battery altered thing temporarily

Sat there, hazards on, with a queue of traffic behind me, trying to start it back up. It took several attempts but it did eventually come back to life. But it happened again, and again. Six more times in total before I made it home. Each time it cut out I was either slowing down, or moving off.
The auto-electrician is coming out again this week.

You paying for their time, it would be better to narrow it down first if possible

Any ideas? Anything I should point him in the direction of? There's a good chance none of the issues will happen when he's looking at it.

Thanks in advance.

Which engine 1.1, 1, 2, 1.3D

On a 1.1 If you gently wiggle the ECU cables do the revs change, , Don't go mad just gently

Dynamic should have a rev counter, when it will not start look at it and see if the needle bouncing up slightly, would confirm if the Crank sensor was faulty or not

When it will not start are you hearing the fuel pump prime under the rear seats, it should do every time you turn the ignition on

When it will not start now, what lights are on at ignition on, and while cranking. The order of the lights is important. It tells us if the ECU and BSI are talking to each other, if the key transponder is read and if the ground cable is faulty

When you say after a few attempts it come back to life

Are we saying the engine isn't turning over and then it does or the engine turns over but it takes a few attempts before it fires up

 

[Kung Fu Panda Po]

It catches itself, does this mean there is a brief pause in power then without turning the key or dipping the clutch it start working again

Yes, if the vehicle was moving at the time everything came back on without any input from myself. When stationary I had to turn it over a couple of times to get going.

Which engine 1.1, 1, 2, 1.3D

1.2 Dynamic 5D 2006/06

On a 1.1 If you gently wiggle the ECU cables do the revs change, , Don't go mad just gently

Dynamic should have a rev counter, when it will not start look at it and see if the needle bouncing up slightly, would confirm if the Crank sensor was faulty or not

I'm not particularly car savvy. Where would I find the ECU cables?

When it will not start are you hearing the fuel pump prime under the rear seats, it should do every time you turn the ignition on

When it will not start now, what lights are on at ignition on, and while cranking. The order of the lights is important. It tells us if the ECU and BSI are talking to each other, if the key transponder is read and if the ground cable is faulty

I will check both of these tomorrow and give an update.

When you say after a few attempts it come back to life

Are we saying the engine isn't turning over and then it does or the engine turns over but it takes a few attempts before it fires up

First few attempts there was nothing. No dash lights. No turning over. Then the next turn it all started up but with the power steering warning light on, so turned off then started up again and it all came back on again, without the warning light.

 

[koalar]

Right not turning over

No lights on the dash

Changes things considably

Not the earth lead
Not the Crank sensor
Waste of time checking the ECU cables
Waste of time checking if the pump priming, it's not

Worked for awhile after the battery was changed and worked after a jump start, I guess it's more likely the problem is in the under bonnet fuse box than the ignition switch

Have to think leave it with me a moment

 

[koalar]

Is the clock still on

 

[Kung Fu Panda Po]

Is the clock still on

Yes

 

[koalar]

Right just checking we haven't got any crossed wires

We have the perment power to the body computer and instrument cluster for the clock to be working still present, Half rules out the battery terminals themselves

But when you turn the key no dash lights come on

Steering
Airbag
Batterry
Oil
Parking
Immobiliser
Seatbelt
Engine check
Cranking circuit

Aren't really all connect

It's as if it's lost the switched power to the ignition switch or the ignition switch is failing

Does this sound right,

 

[Kung Fu Panda Po]

Right just checking we haven't got any crossed wires

We have the perment power to the body computer and instrument cluster for the clock to be working still present, Half rules out the battery terminals themselves

But when you turn the key no dash lights come on

Steering
Airbag
Batterry
Oil
Parking
Immobiliser
Seatbelt
Engine check
Cranking circuit

Aren't really all connect

It's as if it's lost the switched power to the ignition switch or the ignition switch is failing

Does this sound right,

Just went out to check the dash lights. It's completely dead again. No dash lights and won't turn over. The clock is still on and hasn't reset.

 

[koalar]

Great while it's failing in such a dramatic way, it's fairly easy for an auto electrition to diagnose

I don't know how far you want to go yourself

My best guess sitting at home at this end

Is it's either in the blue area at the top

Fuse box in the engine bay

Or

Blue area at the bottom

The ignition switch

It's worth pulling out fuse F3 large 20Amp in the black fuse box and checking its legs aren't corroded, it's surprising just how often reseting a component fixes the problem

I am surprised we don't see more ignition switch failures, I have changed two in the three pandas I have owned, but neither had these symptoms

It's a pretty basic failure, these cars turn over even without most of the electronics plugged in

We can dignose with a basic test light or multi meter

 

[koalar]

Let's have a quick summery of what we know so far

1: The engine cuts out while running and sometimes automatically retartarts without any intervention
This eliminates anything going to the starter solenoid wire or the ignition switch
(AVV) position

2: It fails while braking or accelerating and sometimes comes back on its own
It's likely to be a mechanical fault, that is effected by movement, very similar symptoms to when the earth lead fail going to the gearbox, except the dash lights still work

3: the clock does not loose the time
The body computer (BSI) does not loose its perminent power feed, it can't be between the BSI and battery, it's unlikely to be the battery terminals themselves

4: turning the key to (AVV) no crank no dash lights
It's not the engine ground, from the chassis rail to the gearbox, as the BSI and many of the modules still function even if its disconnect

5: Changing the battery cured it temporarily
The fault is more likely to be something within this area, it could be coincidence but the odds favour around here

I think we need to test if putting a jump lead on the battery negative and the engine mount on the left as you look at the engine fetches the dash lights back

Or at least try wiggling this cable between the chassis leg and battery to see if you can at least get the dash lights back

Does the central locking still work


When you lock and unlock the car does the clock back light still come on and off

Does the interia dome light still work

Do the hazards work

If you turn the ignition on do the headlights work

 

[Kung Fu Panda Po]

Does the central locking still work


When you lock and unlock the car does the clock back light still come on and off

Does the interia dome light still work

Do the hazards work

If you turn the ignition on do the headlights work

Yes to all of these

When you lock and unlock the car does the clock back light still come on and off

When the doors are opened or closed, not when locking/unlocking.

 

[Kung Fu Panda Po]

I think we need to test if putting a jump lead on the battery negative and the engine mount on the left as you look at the engine fetches the dash lights back

Or at least try wiggling this cable between the chassis leg and battery to see if you can at least get the dash lights back

Going to give this a try.