General towing weight
- Thread starter jayw
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General towing weight
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Hi - is there a plate inside the car somewhere [maybe on door frame], that gives you all the weights/unladen weight/towing weights, etc?
jayw, any decent caravan dealer will do a thing called towsure to match your car to a caravan and some won't sell you the caravan if it's within the safe limits.
On parkers it says braked towing weight of 1300kg MAX. This is the same as our 1.9dci scenic (105). My parents have just bought a 15' caravan to replace their older one with a laiden weight of 1100kg if i remember correctly which was allowed, it's preferable to be somewhat below the maximum even when loaded.
On parkers it says braked towing weight of 1300kg MAX. This is the same as our 1.9dci scenic (105). My parents have just bought a 15' caravan to replace their older one with a laiden weight of 1100kg if i remember correctly which was allowed, it's preferable to be somewhat below the maximum even when loaded.
Yes but generally it's better to go not above 85-90% of that weight but you're not breaking the law, as I say, you should go to a caravan dealership even if you have to pretend with a few of their caravans to get an idea about it, they know an awful lot - there's things like max nose weight you have to consider too.
Paul L
New member
The Negotiator said:
If I remember correctly look at the Owner handbook carefully coz the French use a strange system. It used to say 1300kg driver only. Put a can of coke in and it drops to 900 and something.
Paul
Paul L
New member
jayw said:
Have a look at the plate in the door frame.
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/vin.htm sorry to metion the f word but here is an example on how to work it out.
For the record I tow a 1650kg caravan with my Ulysse. It tows at 70 (100km/h or what ever the mph version is) in 6th with cruise on all day.
Paul
Paul L said:
Well my dad is an experience tower and has just done a 60mile trip friday on dificult roads and back today, and it towed fine, on top of that, towsure confirmed it was fine which is the dealership software, if that doesn't agree, they won't sell. Our old scenic DT (instead of Dci) was only allowed a 12'6" caravan and they wouldn't sell any larger.
On top of this, it doesn't matter if you can tow at illegal and dangerous speeds, it's about which lump is in control....
I don't know how old you are and when you passed your test but check your licence to ensure you are licenced to tow a weight above 750kg, newer test passes such as myself are not (well, won't be when I trade my provisoonal in as of tomorrow anyway 
). And I thought the maximum speed limit for towing a caravan in the UK was 60mph I've seen a few turn over on motorways and it wasn't pretty, especially for following traffic.
). And I thought the maximum speed limit for towing a caravan in the UK was 60mph I've seen a few turn over on motorways and it wasn't pretty, especially for following traffic.
Helzie, I thought we had shown (three times) that that's not true, but you do need a test if you want to tow a trailer of a larger mass than your car.
Laws are different for main land europe.
60 on the motorway, especially dangerous during overtaking due to pressure differences caused by lorries. 50 on derestricted roads.
Here it is, from the DVLA (for our driving licenses):
Laws are different for main land europe.
60 on the motorway, especially dangerous during overtaking due to pressure differences caused by lorries. 50 on derestricted roads.
Here it is, from the DVLA (for our driving licenses):
But Helz is effectively right, the rule for 750kg is the one that counts, because the over 750kg option is effectively restricted by the formula used to calculate the weight restriction.
This is an explanation which may help:
Introduced in January 1997, there is now a complicated formula that determines whether or not you can tow any type of trailer without taking a supplementary driving test.
MAM EXPLAINED
The term MAM means 'Maximum Authorised Mass' and is the total permissible laden weight of a car or trailer whether or not any load is being carried. The other significant term frequently used is UNLADEN WEIGHT and in respect of the towing vehicle refers to its weight without fuel, driver or any other form of load.
If you passed your test before 1st January 1997 carry on regardless. You can drive a car/trailer combination up to a conditional 8.25 tonnes MAM (subject to other technical aspects of towing law).
If you passed your test after January 1997,or are about to take it, read the small print on your licence because your driving entitlement is based upon the combined MAM of the vehicle and trailer and the ratio of the trailer weight to the vehicle weight.
For the purposes of calculating the maximum recommended trailer weight for safe towing and Type Approval purposes the formula uses the MAM of both the vehicle (for an explanation see right). But for the purposes of deciding the driving licence entitlement, the formula uses the MAM of the trailer and the unladen weight of the vehicle in one half of a two-part equation and the MAM of both in the other half. And the MAM, remember, is the maximum authorised mass determined by the trailer manufacturer and applicable under the Road Traffic Act even if the trailer is empty.
New drivers can still drive a car and trailer with a MAM up to 4.25 tonnes provided that the trailer MAM does not exceed 750 kilograms (unlikely). On the other hand, larger (braked trailers, can be towed provided that the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle and that the MAM of the two together add up to no more than 3.5 tonnes. The fact that an unladen vehicle, as defined by the Road Traffic Act, will not even start, let alone tow anything results in a law that is defeated by its own logic.
What you need therefore, to be able to drive any typical car/trailer combination is a B+E licence which means you first have to pass the solo 'B' test then take the test again to get the 'E' bit. But you cannot apply for the B+E until you are actually in physical possession of the B licence which then becomes a provisional B+E to allow for tuition (the instructor must have held the appropriate car plus trailer licence for at least 3 years).
You can't get round it by using a smaller car to keep the combined MAM under 2500 kilograms because the trailer will weight a lot more than the car's unladen weight which, apart from being dangerous, will also fall foul of the new laws.
Once you have passed you will be able to drive category B vehicles up to 3500 kilograms MAM with trailers of no specified upper limit, regardless of the ratio of vehicle/trailer weights, but not forgetting, of course, the manufacturers' recommended towing weights and the new Type approvals both of which will have a bearing on any insurance claim that ariss from an incident that occurs when you are towing
This is an explanation which may help:
Introduced in January 1997, there is now a complicated formula that determines whether or not you can tow any type of trailer without taking a supplementary driving test.
MAM EXPLAINED
The term MAM means 'Maximum Authorised Mass' and is the total permissible laden weight of a car or trailer whether or not any load is being carried. The other significant term frequently used is UNLADEN WEIGHT and in respect of the towing vehicle refers to its weight without fuel, driver or any other form of load.
If you passed your test before 1st January 1997 carry on regardless. You can drive a car/trailer combination up to a conditional 8.25 tonnes MAM (subject to other technical aspects of towing law).
If you passed your test after January 1997,or are about to take it, read the small print on your licence because your driving entitlement is based upon the combined MAM of the vehicle and trailer and the ratio of the trailer weight to the vehicle weight.
For the purposes of calculating the maximum recommended trailer weight for safe towing and Type Approval purposes the formula uses the MAM of both the vehicle (for an explanation see right). But for the purposes of deciding the driving licence entitlement, the formula uses the MAM of the trailer and the unladen weight of the vehicle in one half of a two-part equation and the MAM of both in the other half. And the MAM, remember, is the maximum authorised mass determined by the trailer manufacturer and applicable under the Road Traffic Act even if the trailer is empty.
New drivers can still drive a car and trailer with a MAM up to 4.25 tonnes provided that the trailer MAM does not exceed 750 kilograms (unlikely). On the other hand, larger (braked trailers, can be towed provided that the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle and that the MAM of the two together add up to no more than 3.5 tonnes. The fact that an unladen vehicle, as defined by the Road Traffic Act, will not even start, let alone tow anything results in a law that is defeated by its own logic.
What you need therefore, to be able to drive any typical car/trailer combination is a B+E licence which means you first have to pass the solo 'B' test then take the test again to get the 'E' bit. But you cannot apply for the B+E until you are actually in physical possession of the B licence which then becomes a provisional B+E to allow for tuition (the instructor must have held the appropriate car plus trailer licence for at least 3 years).
You can't get round it by using a smaller car to keep the combined MAM under 2500 kilograms because the trailer will weight a lot more than the car's unladen weight which, apart from being dangerous, will also fall foul of the new laws.
Once you have passed you will be able to drive category B vehicles up to 3500 kilograms MAM with trailers of no specified upper limit, regardless of the ratio of vehicle/trailer weights, but not forgetting, of course, the manufacturers' recommended towing weights and the new Type approvals both of which will have a bearing on any insurance claim that ariss from an incident that occurs when you are towing
I don't understand, none of that shows it can't be over 750kg....the DVLA states (for exampe, if i drove a unlaiden 1200kg car) I can drive a trailer up to 1200kg on my current license.
From
The trailer will be over 750kg but not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, combination less than 3.5 tonnes, yes, MAM.
I don't know how much the normal kerb weight is different from unlaiden normally, one driver (70kg) fuel (50kg). EIther way, I assume this means that the trailer will not beat the recommended 0.85 value.
From
The trailer will be over 750kg but not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, combination less than 3.5 tonnes, yes, MAM.
I don't know how much the normal kerb weight is different from unlaiden normally, one driver (70kg) fuel (50kg). EIther way, I assume this means that the trailer will not beat the recommended 0.85 value.
wudnt the owners manual just say wat the towing weight is?
This is from the Practical caravan magazine, see the bit at the end saying that the 750kg rule is the one which gives the greatest weight capacity in practice:
DRIVING LICENCE REQUIREMENTS
This is a complex and much-misunderstood issue that has often been incorrectly and misleadingly stated by the general press; even government departments have been known to get it wrong.
There are currently two different sets of rules that govern what you can drive on a Category B car licence without taking an additional test:
Licence gained before 1 January 1997
If you gained your driving licence before 1 January 1997, you will be entitled to drive any vehicle-and- trailer combination up to 8250kg total weight, of which the towing vehicle’s maximum weight must not exceed 7500kg. This right remains while you still have this particular licence, but is removed if it is withdrawn. This means that if you are disqualified or made to re-take the test you will lose the right to drive heavier vehicles without further testing and will revert to the post-1997 rules (see right). For pre-1997 licences that are still current at 70 years of age, there are some extra medical rules if you wish to renew an existing right to drive vehicle and trailer combinations of up to 8250kg maximum weight. To keep this entitlement you must take the D4 medical test, which your doctor will charge you for, and you must be able to pass the existing standard car eyesight test. Unless you satisfy these conditions you will also have to revert to the post-1997 rules. Details can be found on the DVLA website (www.dvla.gov.uk). Look for form INF40, also available from post offices or by telephone (0870 240 0009).
Licence gained after 1 January 1997
If you gained your licence on or after 1 January 1997, then you will be restricted to driving or towing with a car (or light commercial vehicle) with a maximum weight of 3500kg. Note this is not the actual weight as loaded, but the vehicle’s maximum allowable weight, or gross vehicle weight, as set by the manufacturers – you will find this in your car’s handbook.
You can tow a trailer or caravan with this licence, but its maximum weight must not exceed 750kg – giving a total possible maximum outfit weight of 4250kg. If you wish to pull a caravan weighing more than 750kg (in practice, this covers all conventional caravans), you must follow the restriction that the maximum allowed weight of the car-plus-caravan combination weighs no more than 3500kg, and that the caravan’s maximum weight does not exceed 100 percent of the car’s unladen weight (this is not the same as the car’s kerbweight – have a look at the panel on this page for a full explanation).
What makes this rule appear rather odd is that if you wish to tow a trailer that weighs over 750kg, you actually end up with a lower total limit for the car-plus-caravan outfit than you would if you were towing a trailer under 750kg, where the total can be 4250kg.
DRIVING LICENCE REQUIREMENTS
This is a complex and much-misunderstood issue that has often been incorrectly and misleadingly stated by the general press; even government departments have been known to get it wrong.
There are currently two different sets of rules that govern what you can drive on a Category B car licence without taking an additional test:
Licence gained before 1 January 1997
If you gained your driving licence before 1 January 1997, you will be entitled to drive any vehicle-and- trailer combination up to 8250kg total weight, of which the towing vehicle’s maximum weight must not exceed 7500kg. This right remains while you still have this particular licence, but is removed if it is withdrawn. This means that if you are disqualified or made to re-take the test you will lose the right to drive heavier vehicles without further testing and will revert to the post-1997 rules (see right). For pre-1997 licences that are still current at 70 years of age, there are some extra medical rules if you wish to renew an existing right to drive vehicle and trailer combinations of up to 8250kg maximum weight. To keep this entitlement you must take the D4 medical test, which your doctor will charge you for, and you must be able to pass the existing standard car eyesight test. Unless you satisfy these conditions you will also have to revert to the post-1997 rules. Details can be found on the DVLA website (www.dvla.gov.uk). Look for form INF40, also available from post offices or by telephone (0870 240 0009).
Licence gained after 1 January 1997
If you gained your licence on or after 1 January 1997, then you will be restricted to driving or towing with a car (or light commercial vehicle) with a maximum weight of 3500kg. Note this is not the actual weight as loaded, but the vehicle’s maximum allowable weight, or gross vehicle weight, as set by the manufacturers – you will find this in your car’s handbook.
You can tow a trailer or caravan with this licence, but its maximum weight must not exceed 750kg – giving a total possible maximum outfit weight of 4250kg. If you wish to pull a caravan weighing more than 750kg (in practice, this covers all conventional caravans), you must follow the restriction that the maximum allowed weight of the car-plus-caravan combination weighs no more than 3500kg, and that the caravan’s maximum weight does not exceed 100 percent of the car’s unladen weight (this is not the same as the car’s kerbweight – have a look at the panel on this page for a full explanation).
What makes this rule appear rather odd is that if you wish to tow a trailer that weighs over 750kg, you actually end up with a lower total limit for the car-plus-caravan outfit than you would if you were towing a trailer under 750kg, where the total can be 4250kg.
I disagree with what that last line says compared to your intereptation. All it says is that in reality, if you tow a trailer above 750kg, your total train weight could be lower than if you were towing a caravan under 750kg since the maximum allowed train weight is lower if you're towing above 750kg.
Seriously, I can tow legally up to the unlaided weight of any car I have, aslong as train weight is less than 3500kg.
Of course there's a maximum, which depends on the different in laiden/unlaided, but for example, i could tow a 1.5tonne caravan if i wanted to if my unlaided weight of my car was 1.5 tonnes, allowing approx 350kg for loading.
Seriously, I can tow legally up to the unlaided weight of any car I have, aslong as train weight is less than 3500kg.
Of course there's a maximum, which depends on the different in laiden/unlaided, but for example, i could tow a 1.5tonne caravan if i wanted to if my unlaided weight of my car was 1.5 tonnes, allowing approx 350kg for loading.
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:nono: that is the easy answerAppleSei said:
The Negotiator said:
Having done a quick search, I think they mean that a car with an unlaiden weight of 1.5 tonnes is likely to have a MAS weight of over 2 tonnes, which means you can't tow a 1.5 tonne caravan as it is a combination of more than 3.5 tonnes. So I think they took the average weights and came to conclusion you could be over the limit and the 750kg would give you more capacity oddly. The caravan also has a load limit, which means a caravan of 1,500kg probably has a max loaded weight of 1,800kg and this is the figure used to calculate the total weight upto 3,500kg.
I am not 100%, but this is what I was told buy a friend who couldn't tow a car trailer behind a Land Rover. I think the bigger the car the more the restriction hits because of the total weight.
A 1500kg is a pretty hefty caravan, my parents 14ft 10 van according to the plate on it will weight a maximum of 1100kg loaded, so this sort of thing is unlikely to affect the average person.
I think your right, having had a quick look at some cars, it only affects heavier cars like large MPV's, 4x4's etc because the weight of the car fully loaded is so much higher than a standard car. This is why my friend couldn't tow, because the Land Rover was well over 2.5 tonnes fully loaded. Oddly if you use a smaller car which I would have thought would be more dangerous, you can tow a much heavier trailer.
The Ulysse for instance has a max gross weight of 2505kg, which means you can only tow 995kg to stay within the 3,500kg limit. The Stilo SW has max gross weight of 1,920kg, which means you could tow upto it unladen weight of about 1,300kg and stay within the 3,500kg.
When you look at the new discovery it is even worse, how is that safer than before for new drivers. The smaller and lighter the car the more you can tow.
The Ulysse for instance has a max gross weight of 2505kg, which means you can only tow 995kg to stay within the 3,500kg limit. The Stilo SW has max gross weight of 1,920kg, which means you could tow upto it unladen weight of about 1,300kg and stay within the 3,500kg.
When you look at the new discovery it is even worse, how is that safer than before for new drivers. The smaller and lighter the car the more you can tow.
