Technical Your thoughts on accurate ignition timing?

Currently reading:
Technical Your thoughts on accurate ignition timing?

Well said Thomas, and now maybe I should admit I was wrong to doubt everyone. :rolleyes:
I have established one fact that I find interesting: with my engine definitely set on perfect static timing of 10 degrees, I made a mark in white paint 25mm forward on the pulley from the TDC mark and did the strobe thing. I was surprised to find that in order to get this maximum advance set correctly I had to retard the ignition quite a lot, ie. turn the distributor clockwise.
This made the tickover less smooth....nearly stalling, but I soon sorted that out.
So I may need to go on a long journey this week to be sure what difference that made. It sounds good, maybe a little bit quieter.
So thanks for the advice to everyone and maybe I am now convinced that this strobe timing is important.(y)

It's possible that there's a bit of wear in the centrifugal advance unit, weakened springs etc that may allow too much advance too soon.There's usually stops built in to the advance unit to limit max. advance. Iirc on Fiat bob (advance) weights there were little plastic buffers inserted into holes to prevent noise, maybe these are missing. They look like little pieces of black plastic pipe maybe 3?mm in diameter and the same thickness 3mm? as the bob weight.

I remember rebuilding Lucas distributors in Technical College. Used to run them on a proper Distributor Tester. It was possible to plot the advance curve. There were different springs available so the shape of the curve could be altered to suit different appilcations. In a previous post I mentioned that the two spring are usually different, the lighter spring controls the initial advance, then the heavier spring which incidentally has some free play built into it's mountings, then comes into action. The use of two springs gives an advance 'curve' instead of a linear advance. Some people think one spring is loose on it's mountings and tighten it. Wrong!
Iirc, the max. advance was marked on the advance unit base plate?

I think that too little ignition advance up to say 3000rpm makes the engine seem sluggish and too much advance can cause damage. The only indication you might get of excessive advance is 'pinking' a tinkling sound from the engine particularly accelerating from lowish speed in a highish gear. Iirc, this tinkling sound is the sound of the pistons crowns flexing.
If the engine seems to surge when cruising on a steady throttle opening, the ignition timing may be over-advanced also.

Be aware that most engines when timing is set 'by ear' to where the engine sounds 'happiest' or 'smoothest' are likely to be over-advanced. Which is why I originally said, find the smoothest point and then retard the ignition timing slightly. Then test drive and watch for the above pinking or surgeing.

Al.
 
Good summary Al, and weak springs is what I suspected previously. But the chances of the available repros having anything other than a visual ressemblance to the originals from Marelli are really remote.
I will report back when I have set the 123 distributor. The 900e engine will be a long time in getting to this stage. However I think the anti-clockwise running was flagged somewhere as making some otherwise easily available parts more difficult to find.
 
Last edited:
I will report back when I have set the 123 distributor.

I have just completed the first reasonable length journey with the 123 "properly" set up.
The verdict is that it starts well hot and cold. It is really smooth and there is no stuttering, even on engine over-run.
Annoyingly though, it really lets you know that you only have 500cc, with really "steady" acceleration. But near the top of the rev range it does pick up a bit better.
I still prefer my old distributor with its probably worn advance springs; it seemed to accelerate better.
 
I will be running approximately 103 RON fuel in mine so the timing might be quite a high number then....
10.5:1CR needs some perky fuel - so I've been told. ...
 
Another update for anyone persistent enough to still have a passing interest.
After deciding that it was stupid to add a bit of random advance to such a precision component, I brought the timing back very accurately to the correct 28 degrees of dynamic advance.
The reasoning being that as you turn the distributor to fire beyond the programmed advance setting, you have moved the whole timing curve along by the same amount. So the spark timing is wrong at all engine speeds, which doesn't necessarily help you in real-time acceleration.
Today I did a utilitarian journey of 30 miles, there and back to collect a repaired tyre for my modern car....I wasn't hanging about! The engine felt just right for the first time in a while.
My conclusion has been re-written. I think the 123 does need very accurate timing (as many people have said previously, including the manufacturer:bang:)
The way to go if you seek better performance based on spark timing is to experiment with the programmed settings; after all, there are 16 to play with (if you can get to them!).
 
Oddly Tesco sell the highest octane fuel in the country at 99RON
Add some octane booster and off you go!
 
Back
Top