General Would you swap?

[jrkitching]

My point is a DPF will clog up even quicker on city journeys with S/S.

Why

Because the act of restarting the engine produces additional contaminants, since fine control of the fuel/air mixture takes a finite time to establish. Just think about the puff of smoke you used to see when engines were started.

...considering DPF's have mass warnings about not being dropped, or knocked I'd be going ape **** at any MOT tester which goes anywhere near my DPF, which is still fully functioning, with a hammer.

Me too.

 

[UFI]

I think in reality ss technology is only there so that manufacturers can meet eu targets in real life I can't see it ever saving much money and then only if you live Ina very urbanised area of a big city. The extra strain on parts plus the expensive upgraded components will surely lead to more cost and pollution overall in the long run. Plus I suspect most folk with ss switch it off anyway or learn how to drive to override it.

A lot of people seem to under estimate how much fuel costs. I live in a city of 1.2 Million, hardly big by world standards. Keying off my 2.3l manually saves me 20% or around $1000 a year. In fact, I'll be building a DIY S/S system. If the starter needs beefing up, one out of a Unimog will fit

 

[306maxi]

I think in reality ss technology is only there so that manufacturers can meet eu targets in real life I can't see it ever saving much money and then only if you live Ina very urbanised area of a big city. The extra strain on parts plus the expensive upgraded components will surely lead to more cost and pollution overall in the long run. Plus I suspect most folk with ss switch it off anyway or learn how to drive to override it.

I'm sorry, but that's complete rubbish. Have you ever watched your trip computer reading dropping while you're idling at the lights?


Extra strain on components? S&S is designed to operate when the engine is up to temp, starting an engine which is up to temp isn't particularly hard.

 

[deeyup]

. I do find it strange though that there are still companies out there offering DPF removal. They must know that it is illegal and they really should be prosecuted for both taking punters money as well as offering an illegal service.

I didn't think it was illegal to remove a dpf? Illegal to use the vehicle afterward but not to remove it.

I know of one company who offer the dpf delete service who guarantee you will pass the mot come February. I don't know exactly how this guarantee will work?

 

[bjm38]

I didn't think it was illegal to remove a dpf? Illegal to use the vehicle afterward but not to remove it.

Surely the law would view such action as "with intent", as in getting caught outside a house at 3:00am with a holdall containing a balaclava, gloves and pry bar.

I know of one company who offer the dpf delete service who guarantee you will pass the mot come February. I don't know exactly how this guarantee will work?

I suspect the guarantee would be about as valid as "If you run out of fuel, just **** in the tank and you're good for another 50 miles".

BJM

 

[bjm38]

I'm sorry, but that's complete rubbish. Have you ever watched your trip computer reading dropping while you're idling at the lights?


Extra strain on components? S&S is designed to operate when the engine is up to temp, starting an engine which is up to temp isn't particularly hard.

Sorry to dive into this particular aspect of S&S again - either S&S has packed up in my car, or its little CPU brain agrees with me that it's pointless. A few weeks back, the system would stop the engine for all of 10 seconds and then restart. Following a 200+ mile round trip, it just didn't work at all, no error messages, nothing. Unlikely to be inadequate charge in the battery, I'd have thought...?


BJM

 

[jrkitching]

I know of one company who offer the dpf delete service who guarantee you will pass the mot come February. I don't know exactly how this guarantee will work?

One way it could work is that the company concerned will cease trading on the 31st January & restart under a new name on the 1st February.

It will work for the company because they will have your money & you will have no recourse. .

IMO anyone removing a DPF for money on a vehicle which is licenced to use public roads should face severe penalties, but as said before, the offence is using the vehicle on the public highway, not modifying the vehicle.

Advertising that DPF removal will pass an MOT once the new testing rules are in force is misrepresentation & may be an offence under the trades descriptions act, but sadly I suspect prosecutions are unlikely.

Note that, although not part of the MOT test until next year, running a car without a DPF (where one was originally fitted) is illegal right now. However, the maximium penalty is derisory (a fine of up to £1000 for a car), and I'm not aware of a single conviction.

IMO enforcement should be primarily directed at the companies offering the service, since by now they are all no doubt well aware of both the environmental consequences & the legal position regarding DPF removal.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Unlikely to be inadequate charge in the battery, I'd have thought...?


BJM

Its probably exactly what it is, a long journey will not deliver a slow deep pulse charge to your battery which is probably what it has always required.

 

[bjm38]

Its probably exactly what it is, a long journey will not deliver a slow deep pulse charge to your battery which is probably what it has always required.

Ah, fair enough - the car generally doesn't go any further than the Asda on the other side of town, a bare 2 miles down the road. When the Mini's sold, I'll tuck up the 500 in the garage with a new charger.

BJM

 

[deeyup]

The law would view such action as "with intent", as in getting caught outside a house at 3:00am with a holdall containing a balaclava, gloves and pry bar.



I suspect the guarantee would be about as valid as "If you run out of fuel, just **** in the tank and you're good for another 50 miles".

BJM

I don't see it like that. You don't see B & Q getting done for selling you the pry bar, gloves and balaclava and a holdall to put it all in.

I think that companies offering dpf removal should inform the customer that they are making their car unroadworthy, and soon enough I think people will get to know about the situation.
I don't like the idea of making companies who offer to do work on your car law breakers. Where will it stop?

One way it could work is that the company concerned will cease trading on the 31st January & restart under a new name on the 1st February.

It will work for the company because they will have your money & you will have no recourse. .

IMO anyone removing a DPF for money on a vehicle which is licenced to use public roads should face severe penalties, but as said before, the offence is using the vehicle on the public highway, not modifying the vehicle.

The company in question (I'm not naming them here) are very well thought of in the tuning world and are not a fly by night outfit. They would have a lot to loose by shutting down and restarting under another name. They don't advertise the guarantee, but it is in writing that he guarantees the mot pass. I am as curious as anyone to see exactly how he is going to do this?

 

[frupi]

I didn't think it was illegal to remove a dpf? Illegal to use the vehicle afterward but not to remove it.

No offence, but that's just semantics isn't it? The fact is, it is illegal to operate a diesel vehicle on the road that was originally fitted with a DPF at build, which has since been removed to bypass issues relating to clogging/sooting and regeneration issues.

The companies that offer this service should know this to be the case. The worst part of it all, is those individuals that are using a diesel vehicle that has had its stock DPF removed, are technically driving around uninsured. There is not a single UK insurer that will insure such vehicles because the use of such a vehicle on the road is illegal under UK and European law, so those owners that haven't declared that the DPF has been removed are effectively making a false declaration which is a criminal offence.

 

[bjm38]

...it does make me further question the suitability of S&S for me though. If the battery has *barely* enough power for S&S to operate, then the drain of re-starting the engine on the couple of times is progressively heavy enough to warrant external charging.

I honestly think I might be better leaving the wretched thing turned off!

BJM

 

[bjm38]

I don't see it like that. You don't see B & Q getting done for selling you the pry bar, gloves and balaclava and a holdall to put it all in.

I think that companies offering dpf removal should inform the customer that they are making their car unroadworthy, and soon enough I think people will get to know about the situation.
I don't like the idea of making companies who offer to do work on your car law breakers. Where will it stop?

But if you're "going equipped" as they say, then you've booked a ride in the back of the van - you've no valid excuse. There can be no valid reason for removing a DPF but to break the law - the second the mechanic who removed the DPF turns the key to move the car out of his workshop, that's exactly what he's done.

BJM

 

[jrkitching]

No offence, but that's just semantics isn't it?

It's more than semantics, because it passes responsibility for the offence from the person carrying out the work to the driver of the vehicle, who may have been misled into thinking they could legally drive the car on the public highway after the DPF had been removed.

Those garages which engage in this dubious practice will likely use every loophole in the book to keep the ££££ flowing in.

Also, AFAIK it isn't illegal to remove a DPF from a vehicle if it's not used on the road, so there's nothing to stop a shady property developer from removing the filters from the JCB on the building site next to the local primary school .

I'm no great fan of over legislation, but this is one case where I think we need more robust measures to deal with those actually advertising and providing a DPF delete service.

 

[frupi]

- the second the mechanic who removed the DPF turns the key to move the car out of his workshop, that's exactly what he's done.

BJM

Well technically, he'd have to drive it off the forecourt and onto the public road (for the road test obviously) where he/she will be committing the offence as the garage/forecourt area will be considered private land undoubtedly.

 

[frupi]

It's more than semantics, because it passes responsibility for the offence from the person carrying out the work to the driver of the vehicle, who may have been misled into thinking they could legally drive the car on the public highway after the DPF had been removed.

Those garages which engage in this dubious practice will likely use every loophole in the book to keep the ££££ flowing in.

To be honest jr, the sort of person who enquires about DPF removal will know exactly what they are doing and letting themselves in for. You don't go into a DPF removal place without having done some sort of homework first and the internet tells all exactly what the score is.

 

[bjm38]

Well technically, he'd have to drive it off the forecourt and onto the public road (for the road test obviously) where he/she will be committing the offence as the garage/forecourt area will be considered private land undoubtedly.

I wonder if the law's that precise. What are the environmental controls applied to diesel back-up generators then, I wonder...?

 

[jrkitching]

One additional factor to consider is the likely effect it will have on the resale value of the vehicle.

Certainly any motor trader, and possibly a private individual, selling a car on which the DPF has been removed without making it clear to the purchaser that the vehicle is not roadworthy is already committing an offence.

I can't imagine it will be very long before no reputable secondhand motor trader will risk having a vehicle on the forecourt with its DPF removed.

 

[frupi]

I wonder if the law's that precise. What are the environmental controls applied to diesel back-up generators then, I wonder...?

AFAIK, diesel back up generators are not fitted with DPF's as they are not intended for use on a public road and are not mechanically self propelled. To be honest, I have no idea what environmental controls, if any, are mandated on static diesel engine generators.

 

[jrkitching]

To be honest jr, the sort of person who enquires about DPF removal will know exactly what they are doing and letting themselves in for. You don't go into a DPF removal place without having done some sort of homework first and the internet tells all exactly what the score is.

I'd agree most will fall into that category, but there's bound to be some folks (dare I say young ladies?) who, having suffered from repeated warning lights and numerous oil changes, are told by the garage that if they just pay £xxxx now, they can make the problem go away forever & everything in the garden will be rosy.