will water injection cause serious problem to engine?

[ranju4u6]

hi all,

I bought a fiat grande punto last month.

While driving through a flooded road with water level up to half the tire, the vehicle suddenly stopped.

With the help of local people we managed to pull the vehicle out of water. After that when i tried to start the car (3 times), It was showing a warning message "EBD Failure".

When I took the car to service center , they said that i have to change almost all parts of engine by showing some sand on the air filter portion.they haven't opened the engine yet.

what do you think?, will the above mentioned case will damage the entire engine?

 

[fingers99]

This is really a case of water ingestion, rather than water injection.

If enough water has entered the engine to cause it to run hydraulic, then you're looking at at least 1 rod.

Essentially, fuel/air mix is compressible (as happens in normal combustion). Water, however, is not. So, if enough water is taken into the combusion chamber on the compression stroke, it has no-where to go and the con rods bend. The forces involved are massive, so, damage to the crankshaft and crankshaft bearings, and pistons are not uncommon.

 

[kpremkrishnan]

Hello fingers99,I was along with renju while this mishap happend and was along with him in all his meetings with the service personnel.They have told almost every part would have got damaged even without opening up and everything was just assumptions.I too agree with your reply and would like to know whether this would result in wear marks inside the bore?If thats the case,does it need to change the half block also as said from the service centre?

 

[fingers99]

That's very hard to tell. Certainly it would be possible for the bore to distort, or the cylinder to be gouged by a ring under some circumstances, but I would expect many parts of the engine to survive intact.

I wonder if you could insist on the return of any parts that are considered scrap? My guess is that any such peices (I'd expect, for example, the cylinder head to be unscathed), could then be checked and if found to be OK, resold.

 

[targa]

Will the problem be this severe even when entering water at low speeds?

The air filter is at level in line with the top of the engine. So, how did the water enter the engine to begin with since the water level is said to be at half tyre mark ?

@ranju4u6 - Which version of Indian(going by ur location) Punto is this, 1.3(/mulltijet) Diesel or the 1.2/1.4 Petrol ?

 

[kpremkrishnan]

The model is 1.3 TJD 2011 make.The water was nly till half the tyre and we are also perplexed by how it got inside the filter.The air filter suction point is just above the front grille and may b der s a chance that the level rose to that height when the vehicle was moving forward.But we are pretty much sure was driving well below 15kmph.

We would like to have the so called "damaged" parts from the service centre and have a look at it.

 

[kpremkrishnan]

Please read the model number as 1.3 MJD...

 

[ranju4u6]

1.3(/mulltijet) Diesel. Before entering the flooded portion of the road we stopped the vehicle and ensured that no other vehicles are coming opposite to us [to avoid waves]. We were moving at a speed of 15-20 km/hr.

 

[kpremkrishnan]

We were also informed by the service personnel on the first day itself that the turbo also would have been damaged and would cost around Rs.25 K or $ 600.Will this happen due to water ingestion through air inlet pipe.As far as i know there os little chance that water can flow through the exhaust and flood a turbo....what are your views?

 

[targa]

The water through intake seems more realistic. However, not sure why the entire block got cooked up due to water ingestion.

How far did you guys manage to travel in the water before coming to a halt ?

Diesel internals are made to withstand compression ignition. So, if at all water had seeped through, then it should just choke and stall. If there was dirt/sand (air filter should have kept this at bay), then the pistons/bore would get scathed. Not sure if such scathing can be mended.

@fingers99 - would the engine run hyraulic even at this low speed ?

 

[ranju4u6]

The flooded road was not more than 100 meters. We have covered almost 75% and then it happened.We dint tried to start the car when it is in water. Once its pulled out of water, we tried to start it.

 

[digger58]

The compression ratio in the diesel is high, an hydraulic lock occurs when piston reaches near TDC and there is water in the bore i.e. via air intake, water cannot be compressed therefore it wont go any further! It doesn't matter if you didn't try to start the engine untill out of the flood, when you did try to start it you probably bent con rods etc. I have done this in a diesel before and when it stopped I towed it out of the water then removed the injectors. I then turned the engine over, put back injectors and it started but was running badly, Why? bent con rods. You will be lucky to get away with new con rods. Hope this helps

 

[fingers99]

@fingers99 - would the engine run hyraulic even at this low speed ?

Quite possibly. While it's true that a deisel engine supports compression ignition (after all, that's what a deisel is!) and that the rods are much stronger than petrol cars, they're not strong enough to cope with going hydraulic -- nothing is. There was a spate of similar incidents with early Renault Espace deisels.

It's impossible to be sure of the damage (inc. the turbo) without a full stripdown of the engine, and I suspect, for whatever reason, that this is something the garage want to avoid.

 

[s130]

While driving through a flooded road with water level up to half the tire, the vehicle suddenly stopped.

By half a tyre are you saying that the water level did bot reach the rim or the water level was up to the middle of the hub?

 

[s130]

There are loads of questions and no answers here.

Firstly the EBD warning you saw I believe is "Electronic Brakeforce Disitribution". This is part of the ABS system. Water around the wheels would mess with the ABS signals and also possibly get into the connectors.

The engine stalling could be related to either water in the air intake path and/or failure of the engine shutoff valve.

I would be looking to do the following

1) Getting diagnostic kit connected to all the major vehicle control units (ECU, ABS, Body Computer) and get all error codes and related diag info
2) running hand cycle tests feeling for bite / catch rough points
3) then attmept running compression tests

I'm not saying your service centre are wrong but personally I'm a little uneasy bearing in mind the info you have already posted.

If these all appear OK then you have two choices

1) let the garage do a full strip down and rebuild