Technical Whining sound - anyone can recognize it?

[lyubohar]

Hi. As title says: noticed this whining couple of days ago.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwTLUx8WLReMZU5uTnh5NTBQazg/edit?usp=sharing

Increases when reving, doesn't seem related to gearbox. Anyone has an idea what could be causing it?

Couple of notes:
- it has been raining a lot these days, the engine floor is also all wet;
- car went for regular timing belt/water pump/tensioners change two months ago.

Thanks

 

[850kd]

I have the same noise on my 1.4 (90). Its not the waterpump because I replaced it (after hearing the sound) with another oe quality pump and another new timing belt. I now suspect it is the alternator bearing, or - less likeley- the camshaft bearing . The noise was present before replacing the original waterpump and so far I have had the noise for over 20K miles, and it does not seem to be getting worse.
When driving the exhaust and roadnoise makes it not noticeable.!

 

[lyubohar]

Thanks, other ideas?

 

[carlorff]

drive the car over the channel or lift it up...ask some one to start the engine ...take the bottom cover off and with a good flashlight try to locate the sound while listening.Did you record it under the hood?It is a very loud sound.How do the car behave while driving? Did you service the car lately?

 

[carlorff]

it kind of sounds like mine a few years back when the belt got wet...I had a post somewhere here on Fiatforum

 

[F123C]

I'm guessing here but could it be the auxiliary belt tensioner bearing? I've heard some noisy aux. drive belts also, noise disappeared temporarily when water was sprayed on the belt.
Alternator bearing?, is the noise louder just after starting from cold, i.e. when battery is being charged , is noise louder when you switch on headlight and other loads. You might try removing the auxiliary drive belt and turning the alternator pulley and aux. belt tensioner by hand to check for any excess play or roughness in the bearings. Also the air con. compressor drive pulley and magnetic drive coupling if fitted. It might be possible to start the engine without the aux. drive belt fitted and see if the noise is gone, if it is then the problem is with this belt or something driven by it. ( I don't know if it is safe with modern vehicle electronics to start the engine without the alternator being driven, perhaps a more knowledgeable might know) ?

Al.

 

[lyubohar]

Thanks, I was also offered to try with the aux. drive belt temporarily removed, but I was not sure if that would not cause any errors, limp mode or whatever.

To answer the questions above:
- as said car was serviced two months ago - scheduled timing belt/water pump/tensioners replacement;
- whining seems to be worse in cold start and disappears when warm; that's what makes me think it is just wet; haven't tried with adding additional consumption - headlights, etc., will do that today;
- yes, sound is recorded with open hood, so the sound seems louder;
- already tried locating the sound but only from above (haven't remove the bottom engine cover). All I can say is it comes from the right side, where the turbo is located, but closer to the window.

 

[carlorff]

my father once took his car to a mechanic to replace the water pump and timing belt with pulley tennisoner idler .. the job was not done OK although he drove the car to authorized service center.The plastic cover over the belt was touching the belt and making a strange noise.After reasembley and replaced belt pulley the problem was resolved.As you said once the plastic got warmer it was a bit better but you could still hear the plastic touching the belt due to unprofessional servicing. I would disassemble it and check for wear. If it is making such noises it has to be visible somewhere I would check tenssioner or idler.It can be also the bearing.

 

[850kd]

Carloff's suggestion is useful . I will look at that also.
Our stilo 1.4 has the same sort of noise and my neighbours Ford Ka which is new also makes a similar noise (I think the Ka has the same auxillary equipment as the Fiat 500, as they are built on the same production line in Poland).

 

[F123C]

my father once took his car to a mechanic to replace the water pump and timing belt with pulley tennisoner idler .. the job was not done OK although he drove the car to authorized service center.The plastic cover over the belt was touching the belt and making a strange noise.After reasembley and replaced belt pulley the problem was resolved.As you said once the plastic got warmer it was a bit better but you could still hear the plastic touching the belt due to unprofessional servicing. I would disassemble it and check for wear. If it is making such noises it has to be visible somewhere I would check tenssioner or idler.It can be also the bearing.

Good point, if this whining noise only started after the timing belt etc. was changed then it more than likely is the above reason or possibly the auxiliary drive belt was overtensioned (not sure if this is possible?). Why not bring the car back to whoever did the timing belt work and ask them to rectify the noise?

Al.

 

[lyubohar]

Thanks all.

The timing belt was changed three months ago and I was carefully listening for suspicious sounds after the replacement. I am sure I would have noticed it if it appeared after the replacement. I'm pretty sure the sound appeared about a week ago, by the same time all the raining started (there may not be a connection of course).

Honestly I don't like the idea of going back to the garage and have them reassemble critical things like timing belt, until I am sure it is really an issue and is not just caused by moisture. It is not even noticeable under normal driving, several people even told me it looks like a normal sound for the car to make.

Next week should be dry, I'll see how it goes and keep you posted...

 

[carlorff]

Lyubohar I know quite some time passed since the timing belt was changed.But something could move if it was not tightened correctly and the cars engine was loaded extensively that could cause that sound which is NOT! normal for any car to make.Good luck and do keep us posted.

 

[lyubohar]

A little update: brought the car to the garage, they disassembled everything, tried without the aux belt - whistling was still there. Tried with another belt tensioner - sound was still there. Their conclusion was it is probably the water pump making he sound, but they were not positive and I am not too, so I don't feel like spending 200 EUR for another new water pump (the one inside is two months old).

Thinking of going again and putting back my old water pump (the one the car came with) just to make sure if it's the water pump.

Other that that I am really out of ideas

 

[get]

Did you put original (Fiat OE) one or replacement?

 

[lyubohar]

The new one is a replacement one - by SKF.
In fact all the parts were SKF - tensioners, belts...

 

[aurick86]

ok, since the job was done by a garage, the parts/labor should be under warranty.
Just go back to them and tell them it all started a few days after they did the work and it's been getting worse ever since. ( you wouldn't be lying ...technically)
Just tell them that is the problem gets worse they will be paying for the fix, as well as any other thing that might brake/wear because of their handwork.

It might also be the bearing inside he timing belt tensioner.
It's easily to over-tighten the timing belt, that would rapidly cause wear on the bearings in the water pump and tensioner, anyhow should be covered by the warranty

 

[lyubohar]

No warranty if you replace with aftermarket parts that you bring in with you. Warranty = OEM parts, that's pretty much the case everywhere.

Anyway, I am not looking for an advice how to deal with the garage

Will probably take it back to try with my old water pump and will ask specifically to check if belt is not over-tighten, although I doubt it...

 

[MikeG20]

I always use SKF tensioners, water pump etc, belts are Gates and never had problem with them

 

[lyubohar]

That's what I heard too; as much as I hate it, I am going back to the garage and will see...

Honestly in cases like this I cannot love my bike more - I do all repairs myself and it never goes near a motorcycle service, it's heaven...