Technical Wheel alignment knocked out by accident

[YellowPuntoFiat]

Hi,
somebody last week backed into my son's Punto while in the parking lot. Their bumper went straight into the driver side tire and now the wheels are no longer aligned. It does not look like a big job so I just wanted some feedback from the experts on the boards.

I attach a picture of the tie rod which looks to me like it was bent by the impact.

What else should I look into?

Thanks in advance,
Conrad
PS - I got a response from a different thread where I did see a discussion about wheel alignment: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/fiat-500-sport-steering-wheel-alignment.514133/post-4840671 but wanted to also add it to the correct board.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Replace bent parts, as much as you can check/inspect them visually (or comparing R/L), then check the alignment/geometry.
But it must be good machine/system, that also tells the wheels spacing: L to R, and front to rear axle (2510 mm in Grande).
More parameters than average (mediocre) alignment shop does (angles only). Wishbone (track control arm) can move/shift (one hole is slotted).
Note that front camber IS "adjustable". Most "experts" will tell you that it's not (because service manual says so). Wrong.
Maybe brand new car was not adjustable, but older one (due to corrosion in the knuckle) will be. And will shift in case of accident.
Knuckle to shock absorber, two bolts (18 mm hex, bolt and nut). If there is a play, you have an "adjustment" (undo the nut, don't spin the bolt).

 

[YellowPuntoFiat]

Looks like we will be doing the job in-house! So would like to get your help in assessing visually and suggesting what I should be removing and testing for. Below are some closer pictures which may help. But this is the assessment that I have made so far based on my own understanding.

1. Due to the bent tie rod end, It probably also affected the steering rack. So should I just get a second hand steering rack and replace the whole thing?
2. Lower arm looks like it should be replaced. I think it took part of the impact.
3. Since I'm replacing these other parts, does it make sense to also replace the sway bar? On one of the pictures it looks like it may be damaged but I will have a closer look. Not really possible to tell easily though because both sides are different.
4. What other parts should I consider replacing since I'm taking all this apart anyway?
5. Is there a way to check the driveshaft for damamge without removing it? Hopefullly, I can avoid having to replace that since I consider that to be much more labour and experitise (tools?) intensive.

Any other suggestions and things to look out for would be greatly appreciated. This is a 2014 Jet Black 2 edition which my son likes and that's why he decided not to just write it off...

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Looks like we will be doing the job in-house! So would like to get your help in assessing visually and suggesting what I should be removing and testing for. Below are some closer pictures which may help. But this is the assessment that I have made so far based on my own understanding.

1. Due to the bent tie rod end, It probably also affected the steering rack. So should I just get a second hand steering rack and replace the whole thing?
2. Lower arm looks like it should be replaced. I think it took part of the impact.
3. Since I'm replacing these other parts, does it make sense to also replace the sway bar? On one of the pictures it looks like it may be damaged but I will have a closer look. Not really possible to tell easily though because both sides are different.
4. What other parts should I consider replacing since I'm taking all this apart anyway?
5. Is there a way to check the driveshaft for damamge without removing it? Hopefullly, I can avoid having to replace that since I consider that to be much more labour and experitise (tools?) intensive.

Any other suggestions and things to look out for would be greatly appreciated. This is a 2014 Jet Black 2 edition which my son likes and that's why he decided not to just write it off...

View attachment 476336

So difficult to advise on this from my living room seat. However I've seen damage like this before and each part needs to be separately assessed. I'm tight fisted when it comes to spending money so will only replace parts that obviously need it. One I did had almost identical damage to the tie rod. couldn't see any obvious damage to anything else so I replaced just the tie rod and track rod end, adjusted the toe took it for a long drive - about an hour on various different roads and speeds - It drove nicely and subsequently showed no strange tyre wear the next time I saw it about a year later. I don't see any reason, from your pictures, as to why I'd do any different here. Steering racks are remarkably tough and, especially if the shock was mostly applied to it along the axis of the rack, no reason why it would need to be changed. Of course check it for smooth operation lock to lock and for play in the bushing on the N/S end and against the pinion and bush on the pinion end.

Whatever you decide, the only way to be really sure it's ok is to get it on a chassis bench, like a Hunter, and check all the angles. A check like this, if nothing needs done except maybe a wee "tweek" to toe settings, will probably be in the region of £80? Been quite a while since I've had one done.

Somewhere on the forum I've done a description, with illustrations, of my home made tool for checking toe - If I can find it I'll post a link.

 

[AnthonyH]

I agree with the above. Check every part separately and change the bare minimum. Currently this means just the inner and outer tie rod.

Take more pictures and post them here if you aren't sure.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

So difficult to advise on this from my living room seat. However I've seen damage like this before and each part needs to be separately assessed. I'm tight fisted when it comes to spending money so will only replace parts that obviously need it. One I did had almost identical damage to the tie rod. couldn't see any obvious damage to anything else so I replaced just the tie rod and track rod end, adjusted the toe took it for a long drive - about an hour on various different roads and speeds - It drove nicely and subsequently showed no strange tyre wear the next time I saw it about a year later. I don't see any reason, from your pictures, as to why I'd do any different here. Steering racks are remarkably tough and, especially if the shock was mostly applied to it along the axis of the rack, no reason why it would need to be changed. Of course check it for smooth operation lock to lock and for play in the bushing on the N/S end and against the pinion and bush on the pinion end.

Whatever you decide, the only way to be really sure it's ok is to get it on a chassis bench, like a Hunter, and check all the angles. A check like this, if nothing needs done except maybe a wee "tweek" to toe settings, will probably be in the region of £80? Been quite a while since I've had one done.

Somewhere on the forum I've done a description, with illustrations, of my home made tool for checking toe - If I can find it I'll post a link.

Ah ha! found it, enjoy:- https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/t...anything-else-people-commonly-call-it.502610/

 

[jackwhoo]

Something similar occured to a friends 2003 golf. Needed inner tie rod, outer tie rod, lower suspension arm ,shock absorber and drive shaft . Followed by wheel alignment. Its done 80,000 miles since .

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Ah ha! found it, enjoy:- https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/t...anything-else-people-commonly-call-it.502610/

Of course this simple tool of mine only allows checking and adjusting of toe. Castor, Camber, King pin inclination etc are all aspects of steering geometry which should probably be checked following damage like this and you'll need to find someone with a "proper" alignment bench for that. It's not completely impossible to do at home but very difficult. However incorrect toe or the need to reset it after replacing steering/suspension components is a common job and that's what mine was designed to facilitate - Not to deal with crash damage.

 

[YellowPuntoFiat]

Hi, a bit of side question. Does anyone know how to remove this type of clip? I don't have a replacement rubber boot so don't want to damage it. Thanks.

@AnthonyH - was fast to answer, thanks! But also found this for more context: https://www.wikihow.com/Remove-a-Hose-Clamp#How-do-you-remove-a-pinch-clamp.3F

 

[AnthonyH]

Tin snips through the centre of the raised part that the arrow is pointing to.

 

[YellowPuntoFiat]

Hi, a bit of side question. Does anyone know how to remove this type of clip? I don't have a replacement rubber boot so don't want to damage it. Thanks.

Tin snips through the centre of the raised part that the arrow is pointing to.

Since this is a one time use clip type, can I replace it with the kind that has the screw tensioning?

 

[AnthonyH]

Since this is a one time use clip type, can I replace it with the kind that has the screw tensioning?

Best to replace it like for like. Buy something like this;

9mm x 42cm 420mm Automotive Car Shaft Axle Boot Clamp Long Clips 10 pcs | eBay UK

1x Stainless Steel Clamp/Clip. Auto All All. and more Check Compatibility above! Fits all models.

www.ebay.co.uk

And a crimp tool.

 

[AnthonyH]

Hi, a bit of side question. Does anyone know how to remove this type of clip? I don't have a replacement rubber boot so don't want to damage it. Thanks.

@AnthonyH - was fast to answer, thanks! But also found this for more context: https://www.wikihow.com/Remove-a-Hose-Clamp#How-do-you-remove-a-pinch-clamp.3F

Side cutters might not work because you'll be cutting through twice the thickness of steel and it can be very tough.

Don't use a rotary tool because you risk cutting the very part you're trying to protect by accident.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

There seems to be two different materials used in these boots. One, which has been around for ages and seems to be used in all the Pandas I've worked on, is quite soft and "rubbery". The other, which seems to be relatively recent, is quite "plasticy", hard and stiff - all the newer cars in the family fleet, my Ibiza and Scala, my boy's Audi, and older son's KIA have them - I've found in the past, when I was penniless, that if you take a length of metal wire and wrap it twice round the boot where the old clip was, then twist the ends until it tightens on the boot, it retains the boot pretty well. Because it's so much less compliant this method doesn't work on the newer type. It doesn't seem able to apply enough grip to stop the boot coming off when on a tight lock. Although I've not done one this way recently, and I'd always advise using a proper clip, it does give you an option if you're really in a bind and need to use the car.

 

[AnthonyH]

There seems to be two different materials used in these boots. One, which has been around for ages and seems to be used in all the Pandas I've worked on, is quite soft and "rubbery". The other, which seems to be relatively recent, is quite "plasticy", hard and stiff - all the newer cars in the family fleet, my Ibiza and Scala, my boy's Audi, and older son's KIA have them - I've found in the past, when I was penniless, that if you take a length of metal wire and wrap it twice round the boot where the old clip was, then twist the ends until it tightens on the boot, it retains the boot pretty well. Because it's so much less compliant this method doesn't work on the newer type. It doesn't seem able to apply enough grip to stop the boot coming off when on a tight lock. Although I've not done one this way recently, and I'd always advise using a proper clip, it does give you an option if you're really in a bind and need to use the car.

Plastic cable ties will work, on youtube some say if you get industrial strength ones they're as good as the proper metal clamps.

 

[YellowPuntoFiat]

Plastic cable ties will work, on youtube some say if you get industrial strength ones they're as good as the proper metal clamps.

I'll probably go with the metal clips. Got the original ones off (and yes the boot is the more plastic type). Annoyingly, the tie rod end that we need to unscrew doesn't have any slots for a wrench. Tried different tools which I had on hand but no luck. So bought a cheap tie rod tool on AMZ. Hopefully will have it off in the next days.

Anyone have the torque settings for screwing the new one back on? Thanks.

 

[AnthonyH]

Is the lock nut loose?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Plastic cable ties will work, on youtube some say if you get industrial strength ones they're as good as the proper metal clamps.

I've tried them a few times but they've always come off later. probably because they're cheap Lidl/Aldi products I buy. The wee Honda garage near me had some very interesting looking metal ones on which the locking mechanism seems to be a wee roller which rolls up a ramp as you tighten them - using a type of pliers specifically for the job. When the tensioning tool is released the roller jams the strap. I must ask him where he gets them.

 

[AnthonyH]

Something like this should work;

Amazon.co.uk

Although there are other types of tool which may be better.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Something like this should work;

Amazon.co.uk

Although there are other types of tool which may be better.

I bought this on eBay

It's designed for the original type of band. The pincher on the ends crimps while the bit in the middle, which retracts when the handles are moved apart, extends and squashes the crimp to make it really secure. In operation it's rather poor due to not being made very well. The central "pusher" doesn't retract enough. I've seen a couple of professional branded tools in workshops which work on the same principle and work very well - at around three or four times the price!