Technical What is this problem?!

[SB1500]

Just had a final look, no leaks around the gearbox from my last thread..

But I spotted something very worrying, some part going into the engine looks burnt / corroded and my best guess is it's a radiator hose..

What could cause this, what is it and what should I do?! :bang:

 

[SB1500]

Photo attached:

 

[Trimdoner]

Is that the front of the engine, behind the exhaust manifold? If so, it's a heater pipe - goes from back of water pump, behind the exhaust and then passes to the rubber hose.
This pipe snapped on my daughter's 1.1 losing all the coolant. (It may have been leaking previously though - she would have probably ignored it and just topped up!)

A bit fiddly to change but not that bad if the screws come out of the manifold heat shield. About £35 for the pipe from Fiat though :-(

 

[SB1500]

Is that the front of the engine, behind the exhaust manifold? If so, it's a heater pipe - goes from back of water pump, behind the exhaust and then passes to the rubber hose.
This pipe snapped on my daughter's 1.1 losing all the coolant. (It may have been leaking previously though - she would have probably ignored it and just topped up!)

A bit fiddly to change but not that bad if the screws come out of the manifold heat shield. About £35 for the pipe from Fiat though :-(

Hi Trimdoner, thanks for getting back to me.. over-panicking about this as per usual....

That's exactly where it is, so I suspect and hope you are right!

Can this heater pipe be replaced easily then (even if fiddly) using a socket set / normal tools?

Don't mind getting the pipe from Fiat, but would you mind taking another look at the photo and reassuring me that dark / oily area in the background could be a tiny leak from the heater pipe which should stop when its replaced?!

Thanks, and hopefully I can get a couple of 20 mile trips during Monday - Friday to work and back before taking it to Fiat at the weekend. Wonder if they'd charge a bomb to fit it for me!

 

[Trimdoner]

It's a steel pipe, originally just painted - that's why they rot like that!
No special tools needed, just a 10mm spanner and socket, plus new hose clips for the radiator and heater pipes.
It's actually pretty easy to change considering where it's situated. The water pump end just literally pushes in, leaving hose clips to tighten on the radiator outlet and heater pipe.

It's no. 9 on this pic, the seal 8 comes with it.

 

[SB1500]

It's a steel pipe, originally just painted - that's why they rot like that!
No special tools needed, just a 10mm spanner and socket, plus new hose clips for the radiator and heater pipes.
It's actually pretty easy to change considering where it's situated. The water pump end just literally pushes in, leaving hose clips to tighten on the radiator outlet and heater pipe.

It's no. 9 on this pic, the seal 8 comes with it.
View attachment 170497

Awesome, so you reckon if I can get access to my uncles garage, some Granville Gasket Sealant(?) and some hose clips (what size?) and I should be able to do it?

We did the water pump and timing belt a few months ago, is this likely to be caused by something I've done wrong / neglected or is this just a fact of age and heat wear?

Thank you so much for explaining this to me btw!

 

[Trimdoner]

If you managed the timing belt etc. you should have no problems with that pipe (apart from rusty screws as mentioned ) Hoseclip sizes I've no idea, but you should be able to gauge them when you examine them. The water pump end (push-in seal) I just sprayed with WD40 and it went in no trouble, no leaks.

It's just good old rust that's caused it, nothing you've done. If the original was made in copper it wouldn't have rusted! After replacing the pipe on my daughters Panda, I checked ours (multijet). It's also fairly rusty and crusty, but not leaking yet so I'll keep a close eye on it.

Sadly the multijet engine bay is a fair bit tighter, plus there's a turbo in the way, so I'm not looking forward to that job!!

 

[SB1500]

If you managed the timing belt etc. you should have no problems with that pipe (apart from rusty screws as mentioned ) Hoseclip sizes I've no idea, but you should be able to gauge them when you examine them. The water pump end (push-in seal) I just sprayed with WD40 and it went in no trouble, no leaks.

It's just good old rust that's caused it, nothing you've done. If the original was made in copper it wouldn't have rusted! After replacing the pipe on my daughters Panda, I checked ours (multijet). It's also fairly rusty and crusty, but not leaking yet so I'll keep a close eye on it.

Sadly the multijet engine bay is a fair bit tighter, plus there's a turbo in the way, so I'm not looking forward to that job!!

Perhaps if I take the part to a local machinery/agricultural shop we have they'll know what will 'do the job' or maybe Fiat can price me some from their workshop! So would I even need gasket sealant? OR do the clips make this a non requirement?

Happy days, is it worth doing all the hoses or just on an as-needed basis? Hope I can tackle this during the week and it doesn't fall off / overheat the engine before the weekend! Will keep an eye on it!

Must take photos, and bring the bike in case I need to cycle to that machinery store to get tools / fittings needed if the car is in a non-movable state.

Anything else I should know?

 

[SB1500]

Gave FIAT a call, they couldn't get me a price as their system was having issues, luckily though found it for £36 on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Genu...oolant-Outlet-Hose-P-N-55245750-/301705558698
p/n 55245750

Thinking of just ordering it myself, is it straightforward enough to fit, so I can see one end is a clip - no problem, get the clip and make it tight.. but the other end? Do I just pull the existing one out and push this in?

And am I going to need a refill of coolant / to bleed it again and all?

Fiat said 30 minutes work, but that's £35 labour probably not including VAT so I'd really like to do it myself if any of you forum friends think it's possible?

Uncle is away so I have access to the tools and garage, but not his expertise!

Would rather deal with it sooner as opposed to later in case it ruptures and boils my engine

 

[SB1500]

Hose clip diameter: 20.5 / 23 (mm?) according to ePER - which do I get and is any fine?

Screws M6x32 for one end, and M6x20 for the other, are these readily available in tool shops and if so, suitable for car use?

Other than that, some sort of rubber seal can be seen on the eBay listing image, would it need any sort of gasket sealer or oil / coolant rubbed on it?

 

[Trimdoner]

You worry too much..
You need one of each size hose clip - the radiator connector is bigger than the heater connector.
Screws? - shouldn't need any. Used for the brackets holding the pipe in place. Both are 10mm heads, so if they come out ok you can use the same ones again.
No separate gaskets on water pump end (it's a rubber-type seal already fitted on the new pipe) and no sealer needed. Just a little WD or even washing up liquid so that it pushes in easily.

Yes, you will lose all the coolant!! Any good quality all-year antifreeze/anti-corrosive from your local motor factors/garage/supermarket will do. Follow the instructions for dilution ratio. There is a bleed screw at the back of the engine on a heater hose (easily spotted, like a tyre valve cap). Fill up via header tank cap, and run the engine briefly until no more bubbles come from that valve then reseal it.
Top up header tank to correct level, then warm engine up fully. Recheck the coolant level, and if needed bleed any remaining air from the heater pipe after releasing excess pressure by loosening the header tank cap a little. Don't want you scalding yourself

 

[SB1500]

You worry too much..
You need one of each size hose clip - the radiator connector is bigger than the heater connector.
Screws? - shouldn't need any. Used for the brackets holding the pipe in place. Both are 10mm heads, so if they come out ok you can use the same ones again.
No separate gaskets on water pump end (it's a rubber-type seal already fitted on the new pipe) and no sealer needed. Just a little WD or even washing up liquid so that it pushes in easily.

Yes, you will lose all the coolant!! Any good quality all-year antifreeze/anti-corrosive from your local motor factors/garage/supermarket will do. Follow the instructions for dilution ratio. There is a bleed screw at the back of the engine on a heater hose (easily spotted, like a tyre valve cap). Fill up via header tank cap, and run the engine briefly until no more bubbles come from that valve then reseal it.
Top up header tank to correct level, then warm engine up fully. Recheck the coolant level, and if needed bleed any remaining air from the heater pipe after releasing excess pressure by loosening the header tank cap a little. Don't want you scalding yourself

Okay, just thinking I'll end up knackering the screws that are already there, and be unable to move the car and be stuck unable to get the new ones. Should I decide to buy them, would a local tool shop be able to provide them to the grade of working in an engine bay?

So I will need the two clips? Hopefully when I go to do this it is clear, I'm aware my photo is hard to tell with due to the corrosion, but I sincerely hope this will resolve the 'wetness' in the background and that it was a leak caused by this pipe, what do you reckon?

Should have some coolant from the timing belt / water pump in April! Gosh, my Panda will never reach the standard 5 year OAT antifreeze replacement, it's always getting refreshed coolant every half year

 

[SB1500]

and one more thing.. so the current one with the screw out and the clips undone should essentially pull out?

And does anything need removed to reach in?

 

[jrkitching]

And am I going to need a refill of coolant / to bleed it again and all?

If you've only recently replaced the coolant, then you can syphon it out & filter it for reuse. On models with the expansion tank at the side of the radiator, you can get just as much coolant out this way as you can by disconnecting the bottom hose. No sense in spending money when you don't have to, or breaking the bottom hose connection unnecessarily.

But if it's been in there for more than 18months or so, then I'd change it regardless - and don't try to reuse it if you've got it out by removing the bottom hose as there's then too much of a risk of contamination.

 

[SB1500]

If you've only recently replaced the coolant, then you can syphon it out & filter it for reuse. On models with the expansion tank at the side of the radiator, you can get just as much coolant out this way as you can by disconnecting the bottom hose. No sense in spending money when you don't have to, or breaking the bottom hose connection unnecessarily.

But if it's been in there for more than 18months or so, then I'd change it regardless - and don't try to reuse it if you've got it out by removing the bottom hose as there's then too much of a risk of contamination.

It's fresh, but as I've got the awkwardly placed non aircon Dynamic it'll be almost impossible to get it out of the system without a high risk of contamination, perhaps I'm best using what we have sitting ready mixed from April if its still possible

 

[jrkitching]

It's fresh, but as I've got the awkwardly placed non aircon Dynamic it'll be almost impossible to get it out of the system without a high risk of contamination, perhaps I'm best using what we have sitting ready mixed from April if its still possible

Certainly it's not worth taking any risks with contamination.

If you use 5.5mm OD silicone tubing (the kind of tube that's used for fuel systems in model cars & aircraft), you can feed it down most of the pipes on the car and you might be able to get it to a low point in the system.

 

[SB1500]

Certainly it's not worth taking any risks with contamination.

If you use 5.5mm OD silicone tubing (the kind of tube that's used for fuel systems in model cars & aircraft), you can feed it down most of the pipes on the car and you might be able to get it to a low point in the system.

I'm wondering just how much is going to fall out when I undo this pipe, hope Trimdoner can answer a few of those other questions I had about removing the part etc as this is all that's stopping me now!

 

[Trimdoner]

For the sake of few quid for new coolant I wouldn't have thought it was worth the trouble trying to save it? Just my opinion - as the hose comes off at a pretty low point I would imagine at least 75% of coolant will go.

Apart from cutting off the original hose clips (sharp pliers plus grazed knuckles) the only other item to take off is the exhaust manifold heat shield. Loosen the two pipe bracket retaining bolts and then the pipe just pulls out from the water pump - no special tools needed. A little bit of wriggling and it comes out.

 

[SB1500]

@trimdoner From looking at this video I've taken just there now, can you let me know if you think it's reasonable to say this 'dampness' is being caused by the leak from the pipe?

[ame]https://youtu.be/b9EwJj9o0Rg[/ame]

I smelled it and it doesn't smell like engine oil, I'm thinking its grit mixed with hot coolant that has created the sludge you see in the video

 

[SB1500]

Got two new bolts and clips anyway, ones a 20, other a 22-30. Can cut down the bolts to the appropriate length.

Hope anyone who's following this can chime in with what they thought about the video!