Technical What engines fit X1/9?
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Technical What engines fit X1/9?
socaligirlx19
New member
HI all,
I am working on a 79 and i wanted to know how i can turbo it out, without changing the engine. Are there parts i can use to up my HP?
Thank you
I am working on a 79 and i wanted to know how i can turbo it out, without changing the engine. Are there parts i can use to up my HP?
Thank you
jimbro1000
Established member
For a federal spec FI engine it is a matter of finding a turbo manifold or getting one made and then finding a turbo to fit it. Getting a manifold made might prove cheaper especially as it means you get to choose which turbo you use rather than just one that fits. You don't need a big turbo - the IHI units that Fiat initially used are tiny, even the later cars only used a smallish Garret unit, given the level of boost you would use there is no need for anything bigger.
You would then need some suitable plumbing to get the air from the turbo to the plenum chamber and to the turbo from the MAF sensor.
The largest issue is getting an oil supply to the turbo and draining it again afterwards followed by the engine management.
The rest is just minor techinical wiring and plumbing issues
You would then need some suitable plumbing to get the air from the turbo to the plenum chamber and to the turbo from the MAF sensor.
The largest issue is getting an oil supply to the turbo and draining it again afterwards followed by the engine management.
The rest is just minor techinical wiring and plumbing issues
ThenextgenX19enthusiast
New member
I don't own an X19 (YET!), and have never owned a car(I'm only 15) but I have been wanting a Fiat X19 for nearly a year now and I was thinking about what you were saying about the Audi motor and I think that that'd be an interesting swap. My dad has an A6 and should be swapping the KO6 turbo(s?) with the KO4 type turbos but that's besides the point. do you think a 4cyl. turbo would be a good swap for a fiat? Also I was thinking that maybe a VW GTI swap would be good. And what about a Mini Cooper S motor(bmw can make a motor)? Sorry about all the questions
Like you said, it's better light. I want a zippy car with great handling and DECENT GAS MILEAGE so a turbocharger would be the way to go and i don't know if the 1300 motor could take the compression... Anyway, I'm getting sick of everybody saying their car is fast (I live in freakin Texas) and I wanna car that's quick and nails apex's and I'm sure it's a Fiat X19. Who needs to go 155MPH anyway, right? Oh also, I'm on a low budget. And would you happen to know where I could get the old style body kit?
jimbro1000
Established member
It's an old set of questions there - all of which have been answered many times but I will try and condense down the wisdom.
First and foremost what the X1/9 does best is handling and to do that it needs to be kept in good order. The stock cars are, by modern standards, quite sluggish but then again compared with most "small" cars they are still more than capable.
Thanks to a relatively low kerb weight it doesn't take much of a power hike to make the car much quicker. The 1300 turbo from the Uno Turbo is far and away the easiest engine swap available to us and offers a substantial power hike to a steady 115bhp with tuning options taking it way, way beyond that (mine was last dyno'd at 450bhp peak).
As soon as you step away from the old Fiat SOHC engines (the Uno Turbo engine is pretty much identical to the original X1/9 engines) you have a lot of engineering problems and it really doesn't matter what engine you go for it will be much the same effort. The trick is making sure it all fits without major surgery. The X1/9 engine bay was designed to take the larger dohc Fiat engines so there is a fair bit of empty space but we know that the Alfa V6 doesn't fit without a lot of expensive work - that puts a realistic limit of a regular S4 engine as your choice and even then it is best to keep on the small side for ease of fitting - it also keeps the weight down so it doesn't mess with the handling.
There are a lot of small capacity turbo engines out there now. The best thing you can do is find one that gives the desired performance stock *and* has a sweet gearbox (the gearbox is much, much harder to find than an engine). The gearbox needs to be a cable shift unless it happens to come from a mid-engined car as the gear linkage will be on the wrong side of the box for FWD donor cars.
Finally you need to be able to plumb it all in and wire it in - this can be pretty hard to do, possibly harder than all the rest of the work. If you can't use the stock wiring and engine management you'll need to provide your own and get it mapped to suit which again can be difficult and potentially very expensive.
And don't forget the brakes and the handling will need to be upgraded too.
If you really have to do an engine swap, my real, heart-felt advice is get a stock X1/9 and get it sweet before you start. The reason is that there is a real danger involved. The X1/9 has a moderately short wheelbase and a definite rear weight bias - a lot more power can turn it into a killing machine. They are hard enough to drive properly quickly with stock power without spinning out - a delicate feel for the pedals and steering is needed. The balance of the car is however a delight for enthusiastic drivers and once you have the knack of control the car is exceptionally rewarding. Sticking an engine with nearly twice the power and closer to three times the torque means the learning curve is more like a wall, especially if the turbo torque delivery is brutal (not many are these days but some are better than others).
First and foremost what the X1/9 does best is handling and to do that it needs to be kept in good order. The stock cars are, by modern standards, quite sluggish but then again compared with most "small" cars they are still more than capable.
Thanks to a relatively low kerb weight it doesn't take much of a power hike to make the car much quicker. The 1300 turbo from the Uno Turbo is far and away the easiest engine swap available to us and offers a substantial power hike to a steady 115bhp with tuning options taking it way, way beyond that (mine was last dyno'd at 450bhp peak).
As soon as you step away from the old Fiat SOHC engines (the Uno Turbo engine is pretty much identical to the original X1/9 engines) you have a lot of engineering problems and it really doesn't matter what engine you go for it will be much the same effort. The trick is making sure it all fits without major surgery. The X1/9 engine bay was designed to take the larger dohc Fiat engines so there is a fair bit of empty space but we know that the Alfa V6 doesn't fit without a lot of expensive work - that puts a realistic limit of a regular S4 engine as your choice and even then it is best to keep on the small side for ease of fitting - it also keeps the weight down so it doesn't mess with the handling.
There are a lot of small capacity turbo engines out there now. The best thing you can do is find one that gives the desired performance stock *and* has a sweet gearbox (the gearbox is much, much harder to find than an engine). The gearbox needs to be a cable shift unless it happens to come from a mid-engined car as the gear linkage will be on the wrong side of the box for FWD donor cars.
Finally you need to be able to plumb it all in and wire it in - this can be pretty hard to do, possibly harder than all the rest of the work. If you can't use the stock wiring and engine management you'll need to provide your own and get it mapped to suit which again can be difficult and potentially very expensive.
And don't forget the brakes and the handling will need to be upgraded too.
If you really have to do an engine swap, my real, heart-felt advice is get a stock X1/9 and get it sweet before you start. The reason is that there is a real danger involved. The X1/9 has a moderately short wheelbase and a definite rear weight bias - a lot more power can turn it into a killing machine. They are hard enough to drive properly quickly with stock power without spinning out - a delicate feel for the pedals and steering is needed. The balance of the car is however a delight for enthusiastic drivers and once you have the knack of control the car is exceptionally rewarding. Sticking an engine with nearly twice the power and closer to three times the torque means the learning curve is more like a wall, especially if the turbo torque delivery is brutal (not many are these days but some are better than others).
jimbro1000
Established member
I was a bit rushed earlier so I thought I'd add a few more pearls of wisdom
First of all, get in touch with xweb and mirafiori.com - these two groups together have an immense quantity of X1/9 modification experience and are both in the states so the information is much more relevant to you than I can manage.
If you really are on a tight budget the engine swap is likely to be a non-starter but everyone's idea of a tight budget is different - I don't want to put you off but equally I'd hate to see another good X1/9 wrecked just for the sake of experimentation.
You will need to hunt around for the earlier bumper trim - replica bumpers and overriders are available and I believe one of the xweb members was selling replica 1300 front valance/spoiler parts. That really is the least of your worries.
If you are short on budget the quickest and cheapest way to make an X1/9 faster is driving training. Just because the X1/9 doesn't have the most powerful engine doesn't mean it is slow. In most cases the reason why an X1/9 (or any other car for that matter) appears to be slow outside of a drag strip is that the driver doesn't know how to drive it fast enough.
The average driver can get a car to about 75% of its capability without any trouble but that last 25% is a headache and can be very uncomfortable, worse still most drivers don't know the difference between 75% and 110% where the car is just an accident in motion - the end result is inevitably the car crashing. Just telling someone they can drive faster and how to do it is typically not enough, it is something that has to be taught through experience and physically programming your muscles and nervous responses to do the right things. There is also the matter of confidence, knowing you can drive a car that bit faster and harder is the first step to achieving that end but blind faith is not enough. The average driver will balk long before the limits are reached simply because all their senses are saying this is wrong and they are going to crash - or worse still they blindly ignore the warnings and push the car too far. This is the discomfort factor - once you become confident you find things work much better.
I've frequently done trackdays in one of my cars and flown past other drivers in cars that are significantly more powerful, not because my car is inherently quicker, I just know where the limits are and how to take advantage of them. Equally I've seen novice drivers try to imitate me and go straight off the circuit - they've seen me do it but can't comprehend how I did it. The difference is the driver, not the car. It isn't just one thing either - it is an accumulation of lots of small things I do differently coupled with the knowledge and confidence I have in the car.
To stop myself rambling on - in short, invest some money in proper circuit driving tuition and learn how to make absolute best use of the car before you start thinking about modifications. Not only will you get much, much more for your money but you will also learn a lot about what modifications you really need and which ones are just superfluous.
First of all, get in touch with xweb and mirafiori.com - these two groups together have an immense quantity of X1/9 modification experience and are both in the states so the information is much more relevant to you than I can manage.
If you really are on a tight budget the engine swap is likely to be a non-starter but everyone's idea of a tight budget is different - I don't want to put you off but equally I'd hate to see another good X1/9 wrecked just for the sake of experimentation.
You will need to hunt around for the earlier bumper trim - replica bumpers and overriders are available and I believe one of the xweb members was selling replica 1300 front valance/spoiler parts. That really is the least of your worries.
If you are short on budget the quickest and cheapest way to make an X1/9 faster is driving training. Just because the X1/9 doesn't have the most powerful engine doesn't mean it is slow. In most cases the reason why an X1/9 (or any other car for that matter) appears to be slow outside of a drag strip is that the driver doesn't know how to drive it fast enough.
The average driver can get a car to about 75% of its capability without any trouble but that last 25% is a headache and can be very uncomfortable, worse still most drivers don't know the difference between 75% and 110% where the car is just an accident in motion - the end result is inevitably the car crashing. Just telling someone they can drive faster and how to do it is typically not enough, it is something that has to be taught through experience and physically programming your muscles and nervous responses to do the right things. There is also the matter of confidence, knowing you can drive a car that bit faster and harder is the first step to achieving that end but blind faith is not enough. The average driver will balk long before the limits are reached simply because all their senses are saying this is wrong and they are going to crash - or worse still they blindly ignore the warnings and push the car too far. This is the discomfort factor - once you become confident you find things work much better.
I've frequently done trackdays in one of my cars and flown past other drivers in cars that are significantly more powerful, not because my car is inherently quicker, I just know where the limits are and how to take advantage of them. Equally I've seen novice drivers try to imitate me and go straight off the circuit - they've seen me do it but can't comprehend how I did it. The difference is the driver, not the car. It isn't just one thing either - it is an accumulation of lots of small things I do differently coupled with the knowledge and confidence I have in the car.
To stop myself rambling on - in short, invest some money in proper circuit driving tuition and learn how to make absolute best use of the car before you start thinking about modifications. Not only will you get much, much more for your money but you will also learn a lot about what modifications you really need and which ones are just superfluous.
Or you can do a bit of tuning to the original lump
instructormike, this is your old car and engine
instructormike, this is your old car and engine
Since the Uno Turbo engine isn't readily available here in the US I was wondering where I might get one? Also, Someone said it would bolt right up. Will it fit a '74 X 1/9? What kind of performance could I expect from that engine without spending a butt load of money?
The speedo on my '74 X 1/9 read 145 MPH. I'd love to be able to drive one that fast! I wonder how a Mazda twin turbo rotary engine would work in an X 1/9?
The speedo on my '74 X 1/9 read 145 MPH. I'd love to be able to drive one that fast! I wonder how a Mazda twin turbo rotary engine would work in an X 1/9?
I'd have to agree with you about getting some track experience. It's one thing to go fast, but it's another thing to do it safely. I was 16 when I got my
'74 X 1/9 and being young and "invincible", I took a lot of chances with that car that I shouldn't have. I almost had a very bad accident in that car on two separate occasions. All because I pushed the car too hard.
I know this post is off subject, but I just wanted to through that out there.
'74 X 1/9 and being young and "invincible", I took a lot of chances with that car that I shouldn't have. I almost had a very bad accident in that car on two separate occasions. All because I pushed the car too hard.
I know this post is off subject, but I just wanted to through that out there.
jimbro1000
Established member
In terms of locating one you can try Australia, South Africa or Europe. Most in the US have come from Australia (that I know of). It has to be the early 1.3 turbo though - the later engines are a bit of a headache.
The early engines bolt straight in - they are just modified versions of the injection engine that was fitted as standard in later federal spec cars (which we didn't get). The fabrication needed is all for plumbing and routing of the oil cooler and intercooler.
Performance as stock is "good" at about 115bhp and loads of torque. The UK engines were limited to 0.8 bar for insurance purposes (at the time the cars were deemed to be too fast and uninsurable) but elsewhere they were limited to 1.0bar and 130bhp. Top speed will definitely make your speedo earn its money but keep in mind that the X1/9 speedo is hopelessly inaccurate so will likely go off the clock but a good 130mph is feasible.
Having driven an X1/9 at those speeds it isn't necessarily a pleasant experience without some good suspension modification work to keep the car stable.
The early engines bolt straight in - they are just modified versions of the injection engine that was fitted as standard in later federal spec cars (which we didn't get). The fabrication needed is all for plumbing and routing of the oil cooler and intercooler.
Performance as stock is "good" at about 115bhp and loads of torque. The UK engines were limited to 0.8 bar for insurance purposes (at the time the cars were deemed to be too fast and uninsurable) but elsewhere they were limited to 1.0bar and 130bhp. Top speed will definitely make your speedo earn its money but keep in mind that the X1/9 speedo is hopelessly inaccurate so will likely go off the clock but a good 130mph is feasible.
Having driven an X1/9 at those speeds it isn't necessarily a pleasant experience without some good suspension modification work to keep the car stable.
Thanks for that info Jimbo. I appreciate it. Would you happen to kno if a 5 speed tranny out of a later X 1/9 will fit a '74 model?
jimbro1000
Established member
The simple answer is yes but the real answer is a bit more complicated.
The 5-speed box is just a 4-speed box with a little extension on the end - they had to modify the nearside rear swingarm to accomodate the extra length and make some clearance.
The 5-speed box also uses a flat flange on the gearbox output shafts while the 4-speed uses a tripode cup.
So you'd need to replace the nearside arm (or get yours modified) and obtain a set of 5-speed driveshafts to fit the gearbox. It might be possible to fit the tripode cups onto the 5-speed box but I've never tried so I can't be sure. If it is possible you'd just be popping the flanged stub-shafts out and popping the old cupped shafts in but I have no idea if they share the same spline spec or if the cupped shafts have a separate carrier panel that bolts them to the box which is something you see on later Fiat gearboxes with similar cup designs.
The 5-speed box is just a 4-speed box with a little extension on the end - they had to modify the nearside rear swingarm to accomodate the extra length and make some clearance.
The 5-speed box also uses a flat flange on the gearbox output shafts while the 4-speed uses a tripode cup.
So you'd need to replace the nearside arm (or get yours modified) and obtain a set of 5-speed driveshafts to fit the gearbox. It might be possible to fit the tripode cups onto the 5-speed box but I've never tried so I can't be sure. If it is possible you'd just be popping the flanged stub-shafts out and popping the old cupped shafts in but I have no idea if they share the same spline spec or if the cupped shafts have a separate carrier panel that bolts them to the box which is something you see on later Fiat gearboxes with similar cup designs.
ThenextgenX19enthusiast
New member
Hello all! I'm resurrecting an old post (I'm now 21 with an 109bhp X1/9) and I can't believe I dumped so much into a naturally aspirated 1498 engine. the most logical next step is to sell my Allison Auto full exhaust and build the motor for turbo power, as it's already forged, but I've decided I don't want to go that route as my power goals will cost toomuch for this build and then I'll end up with a grenade engine that doesn't have driveability! I was thinking about a DOHC 16v 1.9l Torque/Brazilian Marea Ecoflex motor with a mk2 uno turbo head(if there's a real difference) and turbo. But I need to know: will fit without surgery? And will A/C still be an option with that engine? After my pathetic child's attempt at building a motor, I am deciding to try to go for K20 power levels the right way, with no cutting and retaining A/C(I plan on eventually updating the A/C system to where it is actually useful) power goal will be around 250-325bhp. Would any fiat transmission be able to support that power? Cable shift is fine, automatic is not, however. My X1/9 still lives, and it will need other love too, but I want to get ahead of the game and get funds freed up for when that time does come! Thank you Jimbro for all your time. If there's already a build similar to the one I stated, please share links. Yet again, thanks all! :wave:
