Tuning Wanted: Seicento MPI engine modifications advice

[Abarthnorway]

Remi Lovhoiden
Marbella
Spain


Hi all!

Just bought a 02 seicento sx MPI - rebuilt to Van.. 68000 km ~ 40000 miles. First impression of the engine is that it is well maintained.

To my surprise it handled much better than expected, and had the magical "fun factor" - so hard to find these days. (reminds me of the old a112)
Sorry to say it, but I had forgotten how much fun one can have with just 54 hp....

Plan WAS to keep it strictly standard spec..... but that was before driving it.
As of NOW, I consider it a DUTY to exploit some of the potential this car has.

I have built and tuned a few Fiat engines from scratch with reasonable results.... but they were mostly older models with carbs - my favored fuel system

Anyway - in todays world, my urge to put a double Weber 40 dcnf on my seicento is considered a criminal act...... so I am in new unknown territory, as I have never worked on setting up tuned fuel injected cars, and never tried to "fool" modern type ECU`s.

This is a "company car" and hence is on a tight budget - with a limited and final budget engine wise.

The Project:

Goal:
Getting the most reliable, flexible and powerful engine within a certain budget and limits, while learning a few new things in the process.

Limitations:
Retain the seic 1108 block. All mods DIY except machining. Fuel injected engine (no carbs). Car must be (reasonably) road legal after mods.....

Budget:
800 Eur incl induction and exhaust mods. Tools not included in budget.

To decide what route to go for I need some basic advice/answers:

Valve size of inlet valve in Seicento MPI head?
Intake valve seat internal diameter Seicento MPI head
Injector sizes/types(?) of Seicento MPI, Punto mk1, punto 1.2 16v?
Are the injectors interchangable between the different manifolds?
Where can I get shims for shimming up cams? costs?
Where is the fuel pressure regulator located on the Seic MPI?
AND then the most important question:
How will the std Fiat ECU handle increased airflow?????

Any advice regarding possible setups appreciated. Preferrably from sources speaking from own experience......

PSutting in a few pictures of some minor flowwork I did to a Punto head a few years back. Sorry for the picture quality:

Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden




Intake port some smoothing left - guides removed




Exhaust port cleaned up - guides removed




Intake port from manifold side




Intake port from CC side




Another look at the exhaust from CC side




Combustion chamber partly done




Modified bronze guides

 

[fingers99]

OK. Port match and smooth out the inlet side. Just smooth the exhaust. P75 cam, decent induction system (the Focus ones on eBay are OK, GSR are better), shims from FIAT or Fluffy the Impaler (they're less than a fiver each), use a performance exhaust manifold from one of the usual suspects with a cat from a SPI Sei or Cinq (extra lambda boss welded in).Remap the stock ECU. If you do find you need bigger injectors, look at a 16v Punto, but the stock ones should be OK.

You'll gain nothing (except security) from aluminium bronze guides, but if you're making some, I need a set.............

 

[arc]

why retain the block?

 

[Todger182]

Indeed, a 1.2 (1242) bottom end from and P60 or P75 is a good starting point for any cinq/sei. Add in to the facts that it only counts as cylinder boring on insurance too.

If you make those guides I too would be interested in some .

Thanks

 

[clock34]

wouldnt putting a bottom end on change the engine code though? as this is attached to the bloack just below the head gasket. and if this is the case it will class as a new engine not engine boaring?????

just checking

 

[arc]

i would say so, yes

 

[Abarthnorway]

why retain the block?

There are several reasons:

1) I want to try out various "value for money" mods using the std ECU. As I am afraid to upset the ECU already, so at least I will retain the same cylinder volume.

2) Less work, as engine does not have to come out + knock sensor + exhaust mods

3) If I get a used/scrapped engine I will have to strip and inspect - and when doing that it will be too tempting to rebuild properly - that means out of budget.... this time around at least.

4) The 1108 is standard engine size - and I want to retain a certain degree of originality.

5) ....... and a 1108 will rev higher with the same degree of mods.....

Thanks Arc anyway for the input - for the easiest powerhike and flexibility nothing beats "cubic millimeters".... I will need Your advice later on, of that I am sure.'

Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden

 

[Abarthnorway]

OK. Port match and smooth out the inlet side. Just smooth the exhaust. P75 cam, decent induction system (the Focus ones on eBay are OK, GSR are better), shims from FIAT or Fluffy the Impaler (they're less than a fiver each), use a performance exhaust manifold from one of the usual suspects with a cat from a SPI Sei or Cinq (extra lambda boss welded in).Remap the stock ECU. If you do find you need bigger injectors, look at a 16v Punto, but the stock ones should be OK.

You'll gain nothing (except security) from aluminium bronze guides, but if you're making some, I need a set.............

Hi!

Thanks for input!

Remap stock ECU?? How, who, where and how much?
Are the injectors interchangable between the various models??
(With this question I am pretty sure You understand that I am a complete novice to fuel injectionsystems....)

I will make sure to order a few extra sets of the bronce guides, and by the way they are shorter and has a taper into the port section of the guide. This should make the påort flow marginally better...... and Yes they are definately safer than a brittle iron one.

Thanks


Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden

 

[c16per]

hi boys i would be intersted in any advice on how can repam the ecu. iam looking to beef my my seicento, ive got a k & n ordered and looking at a new manafold and pipe, i did get my bmw mini done and it was a big improvment.

please pm details
charles

 

[Abarthnorway]

Hi all!


I am investigating the possibilities of remapping the Seicento MPI ECU, as I have seen a lot of members of this forum recommend it as a compliment to modifying other parts of the engine.

Anyone in here with a remapped stock Seicento MPI ECU??


Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden

 

[Todger182]

My ECU was mapped for my 1.2 engine, was quite a step up going from a 1.1 standard to modified 1.2 and you definately felt the increase. halfed the 0-60 time quite literally.

With most modifications it is advised to get the car mapped to make full benefit.

Mapping on a stock ECU can be pricey, but then so can buying an aftermarket ECU. You save money on aftermarket as they can be "cheaper" to map. Whereas the standard ECU map can be expensive and not all places can map them.

Thanks

 

[whitz]

sorry for the thread high-jack but how did you get the valve guides out ?

also am i correct in thinking that they are pressed in and reusable?

Thanks Ash

 

[Brooky]

you press them in and out. i made a little drift to press them out and another drift to press them in so it bottoms out on the head and leaves the guides at the correct height.

Dont hammer them out, and never hammer them in, they crack, i replaced with phozzy bronze guides and took alot of time and care pressing them in

You'll have to measure the valve stems and check the condition of the guides and check the fit to determin weather you can use them again

 

[Abarthnorway]

My ECU was mapped for my 1.2 engine, was quite a step up going from a 1.1 standard to modified 1.2 and you definately felt the increase. halfed the 0-60 time quite literally.

With most modifications it is advised to get the car mapped to make full benefit.

Mapping on a stock ECU can be pricey, but then so can buying an aftermarket ECU. You save money on aftermarket as they can be "cheaper" to map. Whereas the standard ECU map can be expensive and not all places can map them.

Thanks

Thank You!

......Was this the seicento MPI ecu?

If so, may I kindly ask how much You had to pay for this? and who performed the work? (PM if neccesary)

I am having a feeling a mapping session will come out rather expensive....


Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden

 

[Abarthnorway]

Btw:

a few snaps of the future monster:.....
.....no outright beauty right now, wearing too high heels, and lacking some energy..... will see how we can improve on that.

Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden

 

[Todger182]

My map was done by GSR AKA Oldschool (should be around on the forum somewhere). I'm guessing the map was done when the induction kit was fitted, if you buy the GSR kit you get a free remap.

Mapping on the standard ECU can vary from anything like £150 to £300 sterling.

Remaps on Aftermarket ECU's are literally half the price as they will already have the software to do it.

Aftermarket ECU's like Megasquirt's are like £200 to £300 sterling, or DIY kits which can be considerably cheaper but it depends on your skills with a soldering iron and about 50 bags of parts and 1 exploded diagram showing where it all goes.

As you can see from the Prices, it balances either way and there's no cheap (or cheaper) option .

Thanks

Edit: Yes my car is MPI but my ECU is the smaller micro chip style one.

 

[Abarthnorway]

Hi!

Thanks for good info..... tempting, but will take away funds for other mods.

Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden