Technical Uno t for speed!

[Stevh0]

wtf?!

 

[Biz]

Very true, yet there is a a saying that goes:

"Brake Horsepower sells, but torque wins races".

And someone has in their signature (can't remember who ):

"Torque wins races and puts people in their places."

My little Uno FIRE? 45 bhp (WOW! ) and 59 lb/ft of torque.

Also worthy of note is where in the rev range maximum torque is produced. 1.0 FIRE produces max torque at around 2750 rpm, which is where most driving takes place. That's why it is such an easy engine to drive with!

Chas

Me! VVVVVV

Yeah most people will moan that there 1.2 is slow but dont understand waht it has to deliver (Drivabilty combined with econanmy)

Engine are a like catch 22..............take away from one to give to the other.

But i am still blown away by the potenial of the "Mouse that roared"

 

[the mk1 kid]

Hi Biz, Dunc a one or two others i recognise from TC.. this is my first post on here...

You need to compare the rpm at which the torque is being made.

Example:

Car A has 200bhp and 200flbs of torque at 4000 rpm
Car B has 250bhp and 150flbs of torque at 8000 rpm

Ok so the pub talk will suggest car B will win a in a drag because it has more bhp BUT as suggested torque wins races, right? Well yes an no. You see consideration is needed regarding gearing. Consider gearing down car B, you're left with more power and effectively more torque.

Thats my understanding of it anyway...

Tom

 

[Chas Uno]

Hi Biz, Dunc a one or two others i recognise from TC.. this is my first post on here...

You need to compare the rpm at which the torque is being made.

Example:

Car A has 200bhp and 200flbs of torque at 4000 rpm
Car B has 250bhp and 150flbs of torque at 8000 rpm

Ok so the pub talk will suggest car B will win a in a drag because it has more bhp BUT as suggested torque wins races, right? Well yes an no. You see consideration is needed regarding gearing. Consider gearing down car B, you're left with more power and effectively more torque.

Thats my understanding of it anyway...

Tom

That is true Tom, in terms of drag racing because maximum power is usually used all the way down the drag strip. As long as the engine stays in the powerband when changing up a gear the higher powered car is more likely to win.

However, in a race that requires flexibility and lots of up and down changes, (such as on a racetrack i.e. Donnington/ Brands hatch/ Silverstone etc.) the car that produce maximum torque lower down the rev range is more likely to win. This is because it is easier to use the power than on a peaky engine that produces greater power and torque higher up the rev range. A good example of this is Superbike racing where the Ducati vee twins trounce the higher powered but more peaky four cylinders rivals. The vee twins by nature are very torquey and can use their power on a track far more efficiently than a high revving four cylinder.

What also is important is the shape of the power and torque curves. A nice flat torque curve will show a very tractable engine, whereas a steep torque curve will show an engine that needs to revved hard to get the most out of it, and as a result has the risk of a poorly timed gearchange dropping the engine out of its powerband.

Turbo engines are by nature very torquey, but increasing the power big time often means fitting a bigger turbo and intercooler which leads to lag. Though it makes the car more exciting to drive, turbo lag makes the engine peaky to drive and not as tractable when fitted with a smaller turbo. On a race track that might not make a lot of difference but on the road it can make a car difficult to drive smoothly during normal road conditions i.e. stop/ start traffic.

Still, we have a few turbo monsters in the Uno section. Jens is going for all out power, and Dunc is not far behind. And the other turbos all seem to be running close to 160 bhp! I think that would be plenty enough for me coming from my 45 bhp and 59 lb/ ft 999cc normaly aspirated 45S!!!!!

One day I'll have a turbo, but guess I need to finish University first!

Chas

 

[the mk1 kid]

I agree with everything you have said, my whole a and b drag car comparision was not aimed at road or track, just strip.

Re you uno. Everyone starts somewhere, i had a panda, uno 60 diesel, mk1 turbo, various pandas while i was blowing up gear boxes (bottom change strad type **** boxes) and getting that back together. Then a mk2 turbo for about 48 hours lol. I look at but rarely drive my uno t instead for fuel costs i put up with a diesel saxo!

I knew a 45 on 280k miles by the way

Tom

 

[Chas Uno]

Hey Tom,

Ironically, I've owned and driven many bigger and more powerful cars, but despite its lowly power output my Uno is just so much fun to drive! It's not powerful or especially quick, but can surprisingly show a pair of clean heels to many more powerful cars on twisty country back roads. That's more down to the turbo anti-roll bar I fitted and the fact that the bigger cars didn't have very good drivers rather than my Uno being a better car!

At the moment I'm driving my friends 4.2 litre V8 Cadillac (drove it 300 miles yesterday through a mega thunderstorm in Arizona, and inbetween that I'm driving a 1962 Chevrolet 283 cubic inch V8 pick up truck. Sublime to the ridiculous!

Yet driving my Uno always puts a smile on my face. It's quick enough to keep up with modern town traffic, yet so cheap to run and fun. It has many shortcomings (300 miles in a Cadillac was easy, the same distance in my Uno would leave me shattered) but its grin factor makes up for that.

I'd love a turbo, but having gone back into education as a mature student I have to be sensible about what I drive. Saying that, I've bought a damaged Punto 75 SX a month back, so the Uno may have some further mods done to it when I take it off the road.

Oh, and somewhere on the Top Gear website they mentioned that they knew of a classic Panda running its original engine at over 300k miles. They reckon that with proper maintenance a FIRE is good for at least 200k miles. At 92K miles my 999cc Uno is barely run in! The engine will probaby outlive the rest of the car by quite a margin...

Oh, me and Turboned went for a spin in a mk1 Uno turbo a couple of months back at an Ace Cafe meet. I'm having to resist so much temptation not to give into my desires to have one myself. I'll never forget the guy nailing in from the Hanger Lane roundabout back up to the ACE on the North Circular. Jeeze, that thing was quick, and with three people in it!

I must be sensible with my student budget

Chas

 

[the mk1 kid]

I ran my uno t while i was a student which left me pretty brassic. I've been working for about a year which has given me enough spare cash to make driving the old girl a possibility again. For the first time in months i did a little work on her this afternoon which i wa very impressed with myself for

I love pandas! lol Like you mention 45's arent quick but there is that feling of being in a bean can and hearing every bump and creek from the little tin can, they are just so much fun!

Do wait until you're ready to own one, no matter how hard you try one mod will lead to another and all your cash will go the way of the uno!

Tom

 

[the mk1 kid]

I'm not much of a forum boff but i just changed my signature, now wil it show up on this thread?!

Tom

 

[Biz]

Alright tom mate!

Mad fuking motor aint it! lol

Jens, here are some of the reactions i have got from posting it on anther forum!

holy **** didnt think that was possible!

355 break from a 1.3!!

bet that ****er flyers for sure

when that thing pulls away and i mean fast... dont it want to "wheelies"??? with that much packed into a 1.3

holly ****!!!

355 hp at 2.2 bar

out of a lil 1.3,

well impressed, love to see that go

hehehe

I advise any Fiat or non-fiat lover to drive a UT, then say what you gota say about them as every person that i know who has slated them (and only on the body-work!!), hasnt ever driven one!

 

[the mk1 kid]

Hi Biz!

Out of interest, Jens or anyone else. How many runs do you think it will last at 2.2 bar? I dont mean that in a negative way at all, just out of interest as i know its not a build designed to last 100k.

50 runs? More?

Tom

 

[Biz]

well based on what i know of the group B rally days, most engines are based on hours or work

Audi 5-cylinder: MAX 10 hours work then rebuild time

same format for the uno?
but then again the audi engine is pretty much full throttle all the time!

I take it that you dont intend for it to be a road engine jens?

 

[uno_jens.]

Hi Biz!

Out of interest, Jens or anyone else. How many runs do you think it will last at 2.2 bar? I dont mean that in a negative way at all, just out of interest as i know its not a build designed to last 100k.

50 runs? More?

Tom

I don´t know really, but I think it is less stress on this motor if driven like a original uno.. I have coated pistons for less friction of the sidewalls and so on..
If driven hard, The bearings will last, because there is no physical contact between them.. Good oil and regular oilshange will make this motor last for long..

I am thinking of building a modified oilpan so the pickup can´t get air on hard accelerations.

The pistonrings and bore will suffer from high cylinderpressures.

 

[uno_jens.]

I take it that you dont intend for it to be a road engine jens?

It has not passed the Swedish equalent to your MOT yet..
I have to put another engine in there and than change back.

 

[Dunc Uno Turbo]

It has not passed the Swedish equalent to your MOT yet..
I have to put another engine in there and than change back.

lol, so u fit a standard UT engine for ur MOT, then fit ur 355bhp lump back in? like it

Dunc

 

[Stevh0]

we have run 2 bar here in sa for over a years hard racing , the only thing we replaced now is the clutch and flywheel .

Coated pistons are the way to go , correct fueling is even a better factor .

 

[Biz]

Any vids yet jens?

 

[uno170bhp]

hi do u have any pics off the car

 

[uno_jens.]

hi do u have any pics off the car

 

[uno_jens.]

Do I have to tell you that the driveshaft snapped of?

I ran on a 1/8 mile strip, three runs.. no good 60-feet times at all..
Ran 8.3 sec, that would be something like 12.4 sec on 1/4 mile...
Need to get a good gearbox and driveshafts.. It is the the end of the splines that are the weak link..

Hopefully som good times next year (11 sec) with a better gearbox..

 

[Biz]

lol

Im surprised they lasted this long!
You got any custom driveshaft and gearbox manufactures where you are?

and are you gona use drag tyres?

Any vids yet?

I remember seeing that vid of the previous (or is it that motor?) on the dyno with some lovely compressor stall! :devil:

That sound just rules :slayer: