Technical Uno Fire 1100 electrical nightmare.

[DigitalNomad]

Hey guys,

After about two weeks of battling with mechanics who broke the one part after the other to make money, I took things into my own hands and with the help of some kind members on this forum, by yesterday afternoon my pride and joy was purring like a content kitten.

During the time it was at the mechanics they apparently had it at a extremely dodgy “auto electrician” when the mech could not get it to start. Long story short, since I got it back I never needed to drive at night yet as I was still doing repairs to it.

I was just driving down the street and wanted to switch my headlights on as it became dusk.
The moment I did, the instrument panel went nuts. The heat gage went off the scale in a second, the panel lights that shows when the hand break is engaged, head lamps are on and hazard lights are on, all came on more or less together but extremely faint. When I switch the lights off, it all normalizes again. If I put the hazard lights on or any of the indicators, the heat gage needle for example swings to a fro high/low in tandem with the flashing.

I pulled over as I noticed the lights were also not so strong, when i inspected them from out side, the right hand front head light was very dim. Although no indicator or hazard was activated, the right hand indicator front light and the little hazard light on the side of the front fender was on.

Holy cow I thought... why is my car lighting up like a Christmas tree? The back lights were just dim.

I checked for obvious shorts in the engine compartment but can find nothing. All fuses are in perfect condition, I took them out one at a time and even checked them with a multi meter.
This seems to have something to do with the indicators and lights...when they are all turned off, the heat gage works 100% and all the panel lights are off as they should be. When I pull the handbrake up, the red warning light comes on strong as it should. Everything works fine until I either hit the light switch or hazards or indicators.

This is the weirdest thing I have ever seen in my life, how on earth can the indicator buls light up when the headlights are switched on etc...

Please if there is anybody out the who have experiences this special effect of a Uno or can give me some direction of where to start checking for faults, please – please help me out.

Warm regards,

 

[Uno driver]

You have bad ground somewhere.

Edit: First check ground where negative cable from battery connects to chassis.

 

[Louie Bee]

I Agree!

also at the battery negative terminal. Maybe it's on loose or got a caroded connection

 

[DigitalNomad]

Hey you guys,


Thanks for your suggestions, I just went out and found the place just under the battery bay where the thick black ground cable from the battery earths onto the chassis, Took it off, it was nice and clean, both the mounting and the place on the chassis, put it back tight. Unfortunately, it still lights up like a fun fare.


The "auto electrician" apparently rebuilt the starter motor. But I found traces of evidence that clearly shows he opened the panel underneath the steering wheel as the one mounting was broken off and the one holding nut was missing...he also seemed to have fiddled at the fuse box, it has two clips that holds it in place, the one clip is broken, and it has fresh marks that disturbed the dust. My own heat gage also goes off scale as I slowly discover how I was done in by these monkeys.


I will try to find more ground spots tomorrow and check them all, other than that, I don't know. I suppose it is not the positive power lines that are shorting as then the battery would be running flat, is this a correct deduction?


Warm regards,

 

[a73uk]

I`d be looking for bad earths / loose connections round the steering column stalk wiring (as it was disturbed), but also the rear lights.

If it wasnt those I`d check the fuse box wiring.

The stalks can burn out, which could possibly cause the symptoms your describing.

Also check the headlight bulb plugs, they melt, causing similar symptoms.

I`ve also had the lead type battery terminals snapping (doesnt take much to do this & sometimes it does it without you touching them) & have replaced them with high quality brass ones (on my tempra).

If your feeling confident, fit 4 relays to the headlight wiring, both dipped & main beams, there arent any fitted to them when new & at the very least, causes low of power to the bulbs & usually gradual burning of switches / wiring further back in the circuit.

Theres several threads on how to do it if you search the forum.

 

[Louie Bee]

I had the temp gauge max out on my Uno Turbo. can't remember if it was at the same time as when the headlights switch was on (had none fitted at the tiem).

I do know what caused it.. I had not put all 4 plugs back onto the Speedo pod, so perhaps no earth to the pod. There are 2 earth points behind the dash Check these earth points and that all the plugs are connected to the pod.

 

[DigitalNomad]

The stalks can burn out, which could possibly cause the symptoms your describing.

Hi there you!

Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what on earth is a "stalk" ?

Thanks

 

[DigitalNomad]

Hi there Louie Bee

I will check for those two sneeky earths at first light tomorrow morning. I think mine also has 4 plugs at the back all around the speedo cable. Will take them out, clean and put them back on again also.

Thanks for trying to help me out.

I had the temp gauge max out on my Uno Turbo. can't remember if .........

 

[DigitalNomad]

If your feeling confident, fit 4 relays to the headlight wiring, both dipped & main beams, there arent any fitted to them when new & at the very least, causes low of power to the bulbs & usually gradual burning of switches / wiring further back in the circuit....

Good plan !!!

I am definately going to do this once this latest crisis is sorted. The headlights are quite weak and I actually refrain from taking road trips at night because of this. We have lots of accidents ocur at night where wild animals etc. is envolved at night, and we have lots of roads with bad potholes etc, which show up to late with the current state of my lights.

Take care

 

[a73uk]

Hi there you!

Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what on earth is a "stalk" ?

Thanks

Hi Nomad,

Sorry, by the stalks I mean the lighting & wiper switches coming out by the steering wheel.

The plugs for them are behind the plastic cover I think you mentioned had been disturbed by your mechanic earlier.

 

[a73uk]

It is worth doing, I intend to do my Uno and Tempra when I have time, although my Uno`s lights are suprisingly good! (the Tempra`s are bloody awful though!)

Good plan !!!

I am definately going to do this once this latest crisis is sorted. The headlights are quite weak and I actually refrain from taking road trips at night because of this. We have lots of accidents ocur at night where wild animals etc. is envolved at night, and we have lots of roads with bad potholes etc, which show up to late with the current state of my lights.

Take care

 

[alexGS]

Uno Driver mentioned it, but I thought I'd reinforce that the headlight bulb plug is quite prone to developing a poor earth connection. Use a small screwdriver to get the terminals out, then wirebrush and give them a bit of a squash with pliers. Alternatively, replacement plugs are available from general auto electrical shops.

-Alex

 

[DigitalNomad]

Uno Driver mentioned it, but I thought I'd reinforce that the headlight bulb plug is quite prone to developing a poor earth connection. Use a small screwdriver to get the terminals out, then wirebrush and give them a bit of a squash with pliers. Alternatively, replacement plugs are available from general auto electrical shops.

-Alex

Thanks Alex, going to get a little brush now, I notice that a lot of terminals are a bit coroded, the car has spent most of its life at the coast and a lot of the electrical stuff like bulb sockets and terminals are not copper etc...which I suppose is more resistant against coastal weather and rust and so on.

The weirdest thing just happened though. Last night I left the whole lot just that and only left the positive terminal undone just incase there was some sort of a short that could drain the battery.

Anyhow, when i bolted the terminal back on this morning and tested the whole story again, everything was working 100% normal. How on earth is this possible ?

I can find the problem if everything is working. I am going to drive around a bit to heat everything up, perhaps it has to do with temperature - I know this sounds crazy. Perhaps there is condensation somewhere that forms overnight and kind of "fixes" something - this is getting weirder by the minute.

If anybody has ever experienced this type of madness, please let me know how to heal my mental Uno

Warm regards,

 

[alexGS]

If it's any consolation, one of my favourite cars has just developed (while sitting in the garage) a really silly fault with its Check Control panel - all warning lights now stay on and some pulse in brightness! So earthing faults can strike any car, even (some would say especially) formerly-expensive V6-powered Italian cars.

Earthing really is a good place to start - especially the earth connections on the inside front wings (one in front of the battery - check the battery cable too - and one behind the right headlight near the indicator. The push-on connections are notoriously bad. I can't remember for certain, but the headlight may be using one of those. Take them all off and scrub them up with a wirebrush - if you live near the coast now, you should coat them with some sort of light grease after you put them together (maybe even spray with rustproofing wax).

-Alex

 

[DigitalNomad]

Hey there Alex,

Thanks once more for taking the time to share your thoughts and experience.

I checked the front head lights’ plastic sockets (plugs). Standing in front of the car facing the engine bay, the right hand one shows slights signs of over heating at some stage, the plastic seems a little melted although none of the three wires going into it is touching or anything.
The weather is better today and I will check out as much as I can, I found and noted where the earth mountings are in the engine bay, two on the wings front, one under the battery and another one seems to be on the transmission. Apparently there are two more at the back, will locate and check/rust proof them etc.

I left all the panels undone and wires exposed since I opened it up last week when the fun started, until now everything is working 99.99%

It is not 100% because I noticed intermittently, when indicating to the left hand side, instead of the flasher unit flashing at its normal, click-clack-click-clack frequency, it would start up with click-clack – pause – click-clack – pause and then continue as normal, like its warming up a bit first...this morning it did not do it again, but i will try to find a second hand one just to test it with or so.

If all this has been done I thought I could perhaps start testing all the wires from the front lights and back lights in the harnesses using my multi meter. Please let me know if this plan sounds correct. I will disconnect the battery first. Unclip whichever wire it is that I want to test. Connect my the one terminal of the multi meter to it (I have made a custom 3 meter long test lead with a crock clip at the one end and the other end fits into the multi meter) and with the other end start connecting it to each and every other wire in the same harness. The idea here is that I should not get any resistance reading (continuity) as there should only be continuity on the same cable and not the others. If there is, perhaps somehow they are shorting then and power is hopping over.

I slightly doubt this though as there are so many different symptoms from different systems all acting up at the same time, so I argue that the problem would most likely be at or near a major junction such as the shared earth (as you sugest) or fuse box etc...

Just a quick other question. With my radio totally disconnected and the car not having any other electrical devices such as a clock etc...when the ignition is completely off, should there be ZERO current flowing from the battery. In other words, if I disconnect the positive battery terminal and connect my multi meter’s positive lead to the battery terminal and the negative lead to the now loose battery positive cable connector, and take a reading, there should be nothing. If there is, it means something is draining the battery which might be the same thing now and then causing the Christmas tree effect with the panel lights and all the rest.

Warm regards,

PS: Hope you get your V6 sorted, car trouble really sucks

 

[Ucof]

When I had a slow click-clack, it was caused by a flat battery.

Probably won't help you, but there's no harm in trying.

 

[alexGS]

You can get special round wirebrushes (in a cap shape) to easily clean the battery terminals. I just wonder whether that might be helpful given that the symptoms varied after you disconnected/reconnected the battery. Golden rule of electrics; never discount the simple things

Irregularities in the indicator flashing, especially when other lights are turned on and off, point to faults in the earth wiring of the rear light clusters or possibly at those front earth multi-post 'trees' I mentioned before. What is happening is that current from other lights (such as the headlight) is not flowing to earth but instead flowing back into the indicator circuit (through the indicator's earth connection) and disturbing the operation of the flasher.

The rear light clusters have pins made of galvanised steel (not a very nice material to use for electrical connections; it can form a dusty white oxide layer) and the connectors often become loose and high-resistance. It's worth popping them off and cleaning them.

You're right also in that the current draw at the battery with the ignition off should be minimal (with the multimeter connected as you said, set to a current range and usually the red test lead switched to a different socket, you should see 20mA or so, definitely less than 100mA). This small current goes to the clock and the stereo, central locking/interior lights, and the alarm (if fitted). It also depends how the stereo is wired; the Uno doesn't provide an accessory-on key position, so some people connect the accessory (red) wire of the stereo to the green/red permanent live (in Mk1 Unos, brown is the permanent live). If the stereo can be turned on at any time, then it is probably using significant power as it will be permanently in key-on mode. Removing the stereo face is a quick-fix.

However I doubt that current draw is related to your electrical problems at the moment.

-Alex

 

[DigitalNomad]

Hi,

Thanks Alex for that explanation, it sounds like a “feedback” fault then, where as you say, current is being fed back into other systems via a common point such as the earth.

Yesterday afternoon the symptoms were back, so I decided to get my thoughts in order. I started making mental notes of exactly what I do in the mornings when I start the car and how that is different than other times in the day. One thing quickly popped to mind. I use the choke. At first I dismissed this though as it is not electrical. Later when I went over all these thoughts it struck me, the choke is also electrical to a certain extent as it must switch on the little panel lights on the dash.

So with the symptoms in place, I pulled out the choke just to amuse my mind, and low and behold, the heat gage went to normal, both headlights came on and the side indicator went off and the indicators and hazards were operating as normal. The moment I push the choke back in and the panel light goes out, the car lights up like a funfair again. I am pretty sure I have isolated the offending circuit. I remember the first mechanic who worked on it told me the choke is getting stuck when I complained about the weird idling speeds, which as you might no, I remedied by replacing the broken vacuum advance pump thingy. Anydo, I remember him taking the choke cable out and fiddling with it.

I am suspecting that either something went wrong with the switch or its cables, or perhaps the choke cable has somehow shafted other cables etc. causing some sort of feedback fault into the other systems.

Does any of you know more or less where I can find this little switch that gets toggled when I pull out the choke lever?

Whether this fixes everything for now or not, I am still going to refit all the earth points and clean all the terminals I can get access to. Alex I also noticed the metal in the rear lights where the bulbs fit into. The one was so rusted that the one fog lamp was not working anymore. It is really puzzling why they did not use copper or something better, I am going to spray them with that Q20 oil/moisture displacer stuff i got hold of, and add this task to future maintenance as well.

Thanks for all the efforts

Warm regards.

 

[a73uk]

First time I`ve heard of that being problematic!

To my recollection, the switch is behind the lever (on the other side of the dash).

Maybe this is why the steering column surround was broken off by your mechanic...

Usually the only common ground that causes headlight AND indicators coming on at the same time, is the one at the back lights as both circuits cross there, although technically it can also happen at the lighting indicator stalk assembly too.

It sounds in your case that some wiring has been damaged / mixed up behind the column shroud / lower dashboard.

I`m also wondering if your Uno`s been drowned in a flood at some point in its life!

When are we going to see some pictures of your South African Uno?

Hi,

Thanks Alex for that explanation, it sounds like a “feedback” fault then, where as you say, current is being fed back into other systems via a common point such as the earth.

Yesterday afternoon the symptoms were back, so I decided to get my thoughts in order. I started making mental notes of exactly what I do in the mornings when I start the car and how that is different than other times in the day. One thing quickly popped to mind. I use the choke. At first I dismissed this though as it is not electrical. Later when I went over all these thoughts it struck me, the choke is also electrical to a certain extent as it must switch on the little panel lights on the dash.

So with the symptoms in place, I pulled out the choke just to amuse my mind, and low and behold, the heat gage went to normal, both headlights came on and the side indicator went off and the indicators and hazards were operating as normal. The moment I push the choke back in and the panel light goes out, the car lights up like a funfair again. I am pretty sure I have isolated the offending circuit. I remember the first mechanic who worked on it told me the choke is getting stuck when I complained about the weird idling speeds, which as you might no, I remedied by replacing the broken vacuum advance pump thingy. Anydo, I remember him taking the choke cable out and fiddling with it.

I am suspecting that either something went wrong with the switch or its cables, or perhaps the choke cable has somehow shafted other cables etc. causing some sort of feedback fault into the other systems.

Does any of you know more or less where I can find this little switch that gets toggled when I pull out the choke lever?

Whether this fixes everything for now or not, I am still going to refit all the earth points and clean all the terminals I can get access to. Alex I also noticed the metal in the rear lights where the bulbs fit into. The one was so rusted that the one fog lamp was not working anymore. It is really puzzling why they did not use copper or something better, I am going to spray them with that Q20 oil/moisture displacer stuff i got hold of, and add this task to future maintenance as well.

Thanks for all the efforts

Warm regards.

 

[DigitalNomad]

First time I`ve heard of that being problematic!

To my recollection, the switch is behind the lever ...

Hey there,

Thanks for the directions, on my way to have a look at all of this right now.

The old Haynes manual I have is a bit outdated, but from the one schematic it seems like the choke switch shares the earth connector of the left hand back lights, perhaps the short snuck through there.

Drowned? My little Uno!!! Good heavens, hope not. But then again, anything is possible in South-Africa LOL hahahahaha

Once I'm done today, I'll clean her up nicely and take a happy snap or two and upload. She's plain white and looks like an old washing machine

I'll report back a bit later on.