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General  Unbelievable Stupid 'Legislation'

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General  Unbelievable Stupid 'Legislation'

Red Van Man

Red Van Man

My Fiorino's a Qubo..
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
598
Points
337
Location
Yorkshire
I was browsing for van modification and found this report (from last Dec) and wondered if it was April 1st.

Typical Govt meddling and stupidity. Click here

I was reading a review of the Bipper Tepee a couple of days ago and it was described (talking about comfort etc.) as a van-derived car. On my V5, the Fiorino is described as a car-derived van. Now which is it?
If the latter it makes charging stupid VED rates ok and if the former, I bet a Qubist or Tepee-er pays £30/50/£80 for theirs?

Maddening when they both have emissions of 119 g/km CO2.

R-V-M :bang:
 
Only in the u.k., via the e.u. What a cock up.............bet most 'officers of the law' would be foxed on that bit of tomfoolery........

Cheers Qube O.
 
I agree with dave and if it is "legislation" then it really is stupid.

I read a thread on the Doblo forum where a driver was fined for doing 65mph on a dual carriageway but that was 'cos the Doblo was just over 2 tonnes mgw (sorry - Mass!) and is limited to 60mph - fair enough.

The Fiorino must be well under 2 tonnes so the anomaly is purely on description. I think the van was based on the Grand Punto but it's still a van!

V5 description of my Qubo states body type as MPV and taxation class as Diesel Car with CO2 of 115 G/Km and I pay £30/year VED (Sorry R-V-M ;)).
 
2668GRIFFIN said:
£30 a year, you lucky b*****d:worship:
LUIGI
Click to expand...

Exactly Luigi. How annoying, how contradictory, how utterly ridiculous is it that the near identical vehicle (lots heavier with seats, a 4th door, glazed sides etc.) qualifies for the £30 VED when we get charged £200 or so.
How is that ever justifiable against a data sheet on emissions?

More ridiculous Govt. 'emissions'...

R-V-M
 
Quboffin said:
I agree with dave and if it is "legislation" then it really is stupid.

I read a thread on the Doblo forum where a driver was fined for doing 65mph on a dual carriageway but that was 'cos the Doblo was just over 2 tonnes mgw (sorry - Mass!) and is limited to 60mph - fair enough.

The Fiorino must be well under 2 tonnes so the anomaly is purely on description. I think the van was based on the Grand Punto but it's still a van!

V5 description of my Qubo states body type as MPV and taxation class as Diesel Car with CO2 of 115 G/Km and I pay £30/year VED (Sorry R-V-M ;)).
Click to expand...

I thought the speed limit thing was purely dependant on whether a van was car derived or not nothing to do with gross vehicle weight there are plenty of cars that with over two tonnes unladen!
 
This is an issue that comes up daily when training van drivers.
The legislation is older than the current variety of vans, so they don't fit like you'd expect.
Highway Code, page 40 shows the table of speed limits.
"Cars & Motorcycles, including car-derived vans up to 2 tonnes maximum laden weight" Single carriageways, 60mph, Dual carriageways and motorways, 70mph.
"Goods vehicles not exceeding 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight" Single carriageway, 50mph, Dual carriageway, 60mph, Motorway 70mph.

These rules were put in place when we had small vans, derived from cars and large vans like the transit, with nothing between. Vehicles like the current Bipper, Fiorino, and Doblo, Partner and new Vauxhall Combo are not car-derived, so despite being more capable than earlier models are restricted. The car versions of these are actually van-derived cars, but as they are classified as cars they can travel at the car speeds. The lower limits for vans are due to the load-carrying capacity, taking longer to stop and handling differently when loaded. Whilst it is a good argument that these modern vans are very capable in the handling and braking departments, it will take a long time for the legislation to catch up.
Meanwhile, if you have a Qubo, you are allowed to go faster than a Fiorino, whereas a Punto van can keep up with the Punto car.
There are more anomalies when you consider 2.5 tonnes of Range Rover classed as a car! The original Land Rover Discovery was available as a van, using the 2-door body with no rear side windows, so restricted to the lower speeds.
The current crop of double-cab pickup trucks are also commercial vehicles, so are restricted to the lower speeds, although sadly most police officers fail to realise this. If more were ticketed for exceeding the speed limit for the type of vehicle, fewer might choose them.
 
Mines FREE.........thanks to the generous ?? government allowing disabled free road tax.

Thats even cheaper than £20......though I pay for it in aches and pains.

Cheers Qube O.
 
2668GRIFFIN said:
The poor old '' white van man'' getting another kick in the nuts again.
I'm self employed with guys i employ and some times i just feel like jacking it in and working in tesco.
LUIGI
Click to expand...

But you wouldn't be able to claim the VAT back on your white van if you worked in Tesco ;) !

My accountant said I couldn't claim VAT back on my Qubo when I bought it, as it's a MPV. The cheaper VED will probably balance this out over the life of the vehicle - provided I live long enough :D.
 
portland_bill said:
This is an issue that comes up daily when training van drivers.
The legislation is older than the current variety of vans, so they don't fit like you'd expect.
Highway Code, page 40 shows the table of speed limits.
"Cars & Motorcycles, including car-derived vans up to 2 tonnes maximum laden weight" Single carriageways, 60mph, Dual carriageways and motorways, 70mph.
"Goods vehicles not exceeding 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight" Single carriageway, 50mph, Dual carriageway, 60mph, Motorway 70mph.

These rules were put in place when we had small vans, derived from cars and large vans like the transit, with nothing between. Vehicles like the current Bipper, Fiorino, and Doblo, Partner and new Vauxhall Combo are not car-derived, so despite being more capable than earlier models are restricted. The car versions of these are actually van-derived cars, but as they are classified as cars they can travel at the car speeds. The lower limits for vans are due to the load-carrying capacity, taking longer to stop and handling differently when loaded. Whilst it is a good argument that these modern vans are very capable in the handling and braking departments, it will take a long time for the legislation to catch up.
The current crop of double-cab pickup trucks are also commercial vehicles, so are restricted to the lower speeds, although sadly most police officers fail to realise this. If more were ticketed for exceeding the speed limit for the type of vehicle, fewer might choose them.
Click to expand...


YES, it'll take years, :(

lots of people being "Done" for speeding in new Ducato Camper vans - because the "converter" of the new base vehicle has registered it as a "commercial" not a PLG / motorhome,(n)

Charlie
 
Quboffin said:
But you wouldn't be able to claim the VAT back on your white van if you worked in Tesco ;) !

My accountant said I couldn't claim VAT back on my Qubo when I bought it, as it's a MPV. The cheaper VED will probably balance this out over the life of the vehicle - provided I live long enough :D.
Click to expand...

I use my van for work as a mode of transport like I did my car, not carrying anything 'trade' etc. I'm not VAT registered so although I paid it on purchase, I can't claim it back. If I decided to have side windows put in, I'd be charged some Govt. levy even though I've already paid VAT. You are screwed from the minute you're born to the bitter end then your descendants keep on paying for inheriting your assets!! Will there ever be an end to it?

I've just dropped into the local tip to dispose of a small amount of polystyrene packaging (two hands-worth out of a Vax box) and I got a less-than-friendly lecture from the operative there that I needed a permit to dispose of waste as I drove up in a 'commercial vehicle'. It makes me so cross that everything you do is taxed, permitted or levied in some way - you can't do anything without someone wanting a cut or official piece of paper.

One of these days I'm going to print my own spoof pieces of paper for all these things and argue that it's genuine and entitles me to do what I want for a change.

R-V-M
 
Red Van Man said:
I've just dropped into the local tip to dispose of a small amount of polystyrene packaging (two hands-worth out of a Vax box) and I got a less-than-friendly lecture from the operative there that I needed a permit to dispose of waste as I drove up in a 'commercial vehicle'.
Click to expand...

I know of someone who had started a small home-based business and put a couple of stickers on their BMW mini as advertisement, and they were challenged at the local tip for using a "commercial vehicle" to dump a few branches they had trimmed off the tree in their garden...
 
I got hacked off with the lectures at the local tip as well and so now i.ve got a trade wast licence for £31 a year.
And also this was the last straw, i live in the county of Cambridgeshire,the tip is about 8 miles away,the nearest tip is one in norfolk which is 5 miles away and a better set up went there to dump some stuff and when asked where i live i told them ''your in the wrong county mate'' well that was it i drove to the exit and dumped it there.(y)
LUIGI
 
Red Van Man said:
If I decided to have side windows put in, I'd be charged some Govt. levy even though I've already paid VAT.
Click to expand...

A car starts with the base price, then special car tax (introduced in the 70s I seem to remember) is added, then vat on that and any extras like plates and delivery. A van does not have the special car tax. If you later add side windows, it becomes liable for special car tax, calculated on its value at the time the windows were added, plus vat on the car tax! So beware if you buy a used van privately if windows have been added. Get proof the car tax has been paid, or you, the current owner will become liable when the revenue catch up. They don't chase the previous owner.

Think of it as your contribution to digging this country out of the hole we didn't put it in.
 
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