Technical Tyres - toe-in, toe-out, camber, caster, tracking

[d4zzl3r]

Hello dear Fiat friends, got a tyre scrubbing/wear question if i may please?

Look at the pictures, both my front tyres seem to have worn identical. Both have even wear across 90% of the tread down to the wear indicators and the other inner 10% section down to the threads. I have changed a number of tyres in 48,000+ mileage (owned since new) and never notice this before. The only thing that i've fairly changed recently is the lower wishbones.
I had a quick look and the only adjustment seems to be the track-rod ends, which have never been touched.

What would make the tyres suddenly wear like this, the new wishbones a.k.a track-control arms?

I'm thinking the lower wishbones, they were not genuine Fiat ones that i fitted. Is it feasible that they are slightly bigger in that they push the strut out a little bit more and therefore increase the track and produce the wear pattern that i've got?

Camber is my issue isn't it?

I'm not sure how i can fix this because if i adjust the track-rod ends this will only affect the toe-out toe-in won't it?

Yours sincerly,
Confused.com

 

[John202020]

Toe out scrubs inside edge, yes replacing the lower arms could account for this

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Always get alignment done after any work on the suspension isn't a bad motto.

 

[GettinBetter]

Wow! Thats quite extreme, but I can see one is cracking up with age. Any dates on them?

I'm with John...toe out. You defo need the tracking sorted, and you can't guess it. It must be affecting the steering, don't you notice it? Nothing as stable as well tracked wheels.

My MG used to follow the ruts in the road, it was a nightmare.

 

[John202020]

Wow! Thats quite extreme, but I can see one is cracking up with age. Any dates on them?

I'm with John...toe out. You defo need the tracking sorted, and you can't guess it. It must be affecting the steering, don't you notice it? Nothing as stable as well tracked wheels.

My MG used to follow the ruts in the road, it was a nightmare.

As its even and power steering you probably don't notice it?
Tyre choice dramatically effects "tramlining" I've found

 

[GettinBetter]

Tyre choice dramatically effects "tramlining" I've found

Very much so, I was trying stay on the OPs topic.
I was told on the MG forums the tyres to use, but I didn't believe it, and bought another type, when it turned into a death trap I messed with the toe-in/out, and ended up with wear like the OPs, in a week and a half. So I had to buy another set of tyres and this got the suggested ones. God, the difference was mind blowing. Suddenly, I got my car back.

 

[GettinBetter]

You know, thinking about it, I've noticed that my tyres screech far too easily when I go around corners a bit lively AND I've changed the lower arms recently too. I think I need to get mine checked.

 

[GettinBetter]

You know, thinking about it, I've noticed that my tyres screech far too easily when I go around corners a bit lively AND I've changed the lower arms recently too. I think I need to get mine checked.

Had the tracking checked today, was miles out (~5+ degrees) poodled home so can't test it for a bit. It does feel better though.

 

[GettinBetter]

So glad I had this done, I've been doing some hairy bends for the last week, and it's virtually not squealing at all, except when I go too fast around them, these bends would have murdered my tyres the way it was set before.

 

[d4zzl3r]

Hello - follow up.

I posted this originally in June 24 and since then i've replaced the dampers, rubber strut mountings and bearings. New tyres on the front.
Previously had both front wishbones changed at different intervals.

My new tyres are wearing on the inside again.

So, is it easy/possible to set the tracking?
The only adjustable thing i can see is the track-rod ends on the steering rack.

Anyone done it?

 

[StevenRB45]

A 2 wheel alignment is about 40 quid I'd just do that.

Without the proper gear you'll not get it close enough apart from by luck and get it wrong and the tyres will cost more than you saved on alignment.

For your money you should get a before like this...and also an after.

The machines to do it properly are many thousands..

 

[Ralf S.]

So, is it easy/possible to set the tracking?
The only adjustable thing i can see is the track-rod ends on the steering rack.

Anyone done it?

Yes it is possible and it is easy but you need a device that measures the toe angle, which is the bloody difficult part.

There is a way to make DIY frames that can be used to measure toe with a piece of string.. but it's an utter PITA and you'll never be sure you got it right. A tyre place can do the job in about half an hour / c. £40. If you buy 2 decent new tyres, you can be cheeky and haggle for a free/cheap wheel re-alignment (actually a toe adjustment).

The Track Rod Ends are indeed how you adjust toe. Make sure the steering wheel is dead straight and doesn't/can't move.. loosen the Track Rod End lock nut, and then screw the steering rod in or out of the TRE to get the toe angle you want.

But.. your tyres look like sagging wishbones. Have a look at the rubber bushes, particularly the rearmost one. Jack the car up so you get the front wheel in the air, start it up (in neutral) unless your power steering works with the engine off... (?) and have someone turn the wheel slowly from lock to lock. If the rubber bush is detached from the receiver, or it's able to move (usually upwards) as the steering angle changes, then it's knackered.

Don't spend £40 on a wheel alignment if the bushes are obviously knackered, since you ought to do an alignment again after replacing the wishbone arms... but if the bushes look "okay"/not sure then an alignment will prove it. Knackered bushes mass up your camber (non adjustable).. so if your camber is all over the place, it's the arms. Replace both arms with decent quality ones at the same time.


Ralf S.

 

[John202020]

There seems to be a bit 'wiggle room' on the rear axel mount to car brackets so maybe slight adjustment possible?

 

[d4zzl3r]

Yes it is possible and it is easy but you need a device that measures the toe angle, which is the bloody difficult part.

There is a way to make DIY frames that can be used to measure toe with a piece of string.. but it's an utter PITA and you'll never be sure you got it right. A tyre place can do the job in about half an hour / c. £40. If you buy 2 decent new tyres, you can be cheeky and haggle for a free/cheap wheel re-alignment (actually a toe adjustment).

The Track Rod Ends are indeed how you adjust toe. Make sure the steering wheel is dead straight and doesn't/can't move.. loosen the Track Rod End lock nut, and then screw the steering rod in or out of the TRE to get the toe angle you want.

But.. your tyres look like sagging wishbones. Have a look at the rubber bushes, particularly the rearmost one. Jack the car up so you get the front wheel in the air, start it up (in neutral) unless your power steering works with the engine off... (?) and have someone turn the wheel slowly from lock to lock. If the rubber bush is detached from the receiver, or it's able to move (usually upwards) as the steering angle changes, then it's knackered.

Don't spend £40 on a wheel alignment if the bushes are obviously knackered, since you ought to do an alignment again after replacing the wishbone arms... but if the bushes look "okay"/not sure then an alignment will prove it. Knackered bushes mass up your camber (non adjustable).. so if your camber is all over the place, it's the arms. Replace both arms with decent quality ones at the same time.


Ralf S.

Thank you.

 

[the green vanper]

A good workshop doing the alignment should check first if there isn't anything needing replacement before.

 

[StevenRB45]

A good workshop doing the alignment should check first if there isn't anything needing replacement before.

If anything most will on the basis most places with an alignment machine do suspension repairs and it's an opportunity to get you to buy something else. They'd do it because it's in their interest, both to upsell and so you don't come back in 3 months and say "why are my tyres still wearing odd".