Technical Turboing a 1.2 8V

[Archeron]

Hello,
I have a Doblo 1.2 panorama that i've been using for 3 years, upon oil-locking my previous factory 223a500 engine (wrong oil choice by the previous owner, busted the oil pump slowly until all the bearings and crankshaft were useless.) and i've swapped a 80k km used 176B4000 bottom end (untouched) from a punto mk1 and its been 2 years. It's running on an IAW 59F.ST with the mk2 plastic intake manifold (pictures below) and I am thinking of a low budget turbo project using a 1.3 Multijet turbo (since used ones are cheap and most common in Turkey) and what i really wanna ask is if the 59F (unprogrammed since no one in Turkey can do this) can run on a 1.3 map sensor that can reach higher pressure readings. I am already running the MLS (3 layers) Victor Reinz head gasket.
The plan is;
Cut off the current exhaust manifold flange and weld in a scrapped 1.3 exhaust manifold to accept the 1.3 turbo without any hassle.
Get a 1.3 Multijet MAP sensor since the factory MAP for the 1.2 only reads 100kpa.
Intercooler, oil lines and wastegate etc can be settled easily (probably 1.3 parts again lol)
If the 59F cant run on boost, i can use the LPG ecu along with its external map (can read to abt 2 bar) and eliminate the 59F from the equation.
I'm thinking of running 0.5-0.6 bar boost, not too much. Due to availability and economical reasons, i dont want to run a piggyback or a standalone ecu since i can run it on the LPG system anyways.
If you have any recommendations or info that i can use, please reply.
Thanks in advance

(Had to drop this topic in the punto forums because muuuuch more info is present along with more knowledgeable people, sorry for that)

 

[Archeron]

I also have an lsu 4.9 aem afr gauge installed atm. I cant think of a reason not to turbo this car rn Excuse the wiring MESS.. the factory wiring is completely redone but the lpg wiring desperately needs attention, i am aware of it

 

[jonik]

Hi! Can you tune mixture and ignition with LPG ecu? In my case I had to retard the ignition about 1 degree per 0.1bar at max torque rpm

 

[Archeron]

Hi! Can you tune mixture and ignition with LPG ecu? In my case I had to retard the ignition about 1 degree per 0.1bar at max torque rpm

I can only tune the fuel amount, sadly the ignition timimg is still controlled by the main ECU i think. I hadn't thought about this, at the very least that would require a more intelligent LPG ECU. I'm still trying to figure out a way of tuning the 59FM3. It's not the ST, that was a false info In any case i still think the priority is running it on the original ECU. I hate piggybacks because of their nature, combined with the unreliability and dangers of it i really dont think its a good idea.

 

[jonik]

0.2bar is max without ignition tuning when using premium fuel. I fitted Ecumaster DET3+, works okay

 

[Archeron]

0.2bar is max without ignition tuning when using premium fuel. I fitted Ecumaster DET3+, works okay

Yeah, im thinking galletto v54 can do the trick for this issue (not entirely sure) but since the det3 and alike override the ecu's knock control, timing etc i really dont trust them especially since im relatively new to tuning. Thanks for your input btw, no one else decides to pitch in for some reason. I also took a look at your punto series a while back, diy wins lol

 

[Archeron]

Yeah, im thinking galletto v54 can do the trick for this issue (not entirely sure) but since the det3 and alike override the ecu's knock control, timing etc i really dont trust them especially since im relatively new to tuning. Thanks for your input btw, no one else decides to pitch in for some reason.
Yeah, im thinking galletto v54 can do the trick for this issue (not entirely sure) but since the det3 and alike override the ecu's knock control, timing etc i really dont trust them especially since im relatively new to tuning. Thanks for your input btw, no one else decides to pitch in for some reason. I also took a look at your punto series a while back, diy wins lol

Parts list for now:
Stock Doblo intercooler since its good enough for my application and i can use the factory mounts for it without any modifications.
1.9JTD MAP sensor since the mk2 plastic manifold combines the MAP and IAT in a 4 pin sensor, the jtd one is exactly the same, only difference being the 2.56 bar pressure limit instead of 1 bar, i can adjust this ecu for the voltage values from that sensor for it to run right.
Either a BV35 Turbo from the euro4 (without the electronic wastegate) 1.3 multijets, a VL36 from the 1.4 t-jet models, BV35 is muuuch cheaper and its wastegate opens up at about 0.8 bar but idk how it will perform on a 1242 gasoline engine.
Hoses, tubes clamps etc, lpg problem can be dealt with AFTER the car runs on gas.
I want it to be a solid, balanced build that i wont have to worry about breaking my engine. I expect around 110-120hp and around 150-160nm of torque? Could be less and im happy with less. Together with the extremely short transmission (maybe i'll switch to a 1.9 JTD fifth gear gearwheel which is a much better ratio and i think a direct fit) this thing will be fun imho.
I am totally serious about this mod (however i will take it slow and buy the parts IN time, piece by piece) but the only thing that i dont know about is the ecu and its tuneability AND whether i can do it or not. Still working on it, nobody knows anything about tuning any marelli ecu's in Turkey and when you ask the tuners they just simply ignore or refuse to do anything bcs they're worthless and all they know is dpf or egr cancellations.

 

[jonik]

Yeah, im thinking galletto v54 can do the trick for this issue (not entirely sure) but since the det3 and alike override the ecu's knock control, timing etc i really dont trust them especially since im relatively new to tuning. Thanks for your input btw, no one else decides to pitch in for some reason. I also took a look at your punto series a while back, diy wins lol

Knock sensor works fine and you can tune the ignition advance +-15 degrees, I only made changes on boost. I had 150hp and 200nm on my supercharged engine with +1bar boost, you may need 0,7bar or so for those numbers. You need bigger injectors and adjustable fuel pressure regulator with fuel return line because on boost your fuel pressure will drop. Example: 3.5bar fuel pressure with 0,5bar boost is 3bar so boost makes the mixture even leaner. Of course you could compensate that with huge injectors but low load tuning will be nightmare, been there done that..

 

[Archeron]

Knock sensor works fine and you can tune the ignition advance +-15 degrees, I only made changes on boost. I had 150hp and 200nm on my supercharged engine with +1bar boost, you may need 0,7bar or so for those numbers. You need bigger injectors and adjustable fuel pressure regulator with fuel return line because on boost your fuel pressure will drop. Example: 3.5bar fuel pressure with 0,5bar boost is 3bar so boost makes the mixture even leaner. Of course you could compensate that with huge injectors but low load tuning will be nightmare, been there done that..

Hmm. My fuel system is returnless, will have to sort that out. i've read that ford ka injectors (230cc?) will do the job somewhere but dont remember it rn. FPR is mandatory anyways. In any case my first priority is the factory ecu software, im doing a lot of research and for now it definetly seems doable. First purchause will be the ecu tuning related stuff, currently leaning on Galletto as i said.

 

[jonik]

Those Ford Ka injectors are enough up to 0.5bar. I have lots of videos on my YouTube channel JoniK, mostly Finnish but videos have English subtitles. I didn't find a way to tune the original ecu but it was years ago

 

[Archeron]

Those Ford Ka injectors are enough up to 0.5bar. I have lots of videos on my YouTube channel JoniK, mostly Finnish but videos have English subtitles. I didn't find a way to tune the original ecu but it was years ago

Yeah ik, boostedpunto. Watched some of your videos in the past like i mentioned.

 

[jonik]

Yeah ik, boostedpunto. Watched some of your videos in the past like i mentioned.

Here's the video about my upgraded fuel system, there's English subtitles: