Technical TOB gone wonky?

[Magistralis]

My GP has been making this noise, increasing in frequency and volume over the past two months. I’ve been pointed towards throw-out bearing, but I’d like some input. The clutch itself feels normal. Someone else suggested a bearing issue in the transmission.

The noise starts when the car is warmed up (15-20 mins?) and is also audible when driving if you drop below 2000 RPM. Sometimes it goes away after a minute or so of idling, only to come back later. The noise does not always disappear when the clutch is depressed like in the video. Sometimes it quiets down, sometimes nothing changes. This makes it pretty confusing to me. Hopefully someone has some insight.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

1. Why are you asking, what's the point? Will you DIY this or take it to the mechanic anyway?
2. Diagnose it with a helper (he/she operates the clutch, you listen closely at engine bay).
Videos from the cabin, driver's seat, are almost useless (when the source is outside, engine, suspension etc.)...
But it doesn't sound like typical clutch failure (rather gearbox or something else - opposite side of the engine?).
There is an inspection window (rubber rectangular plug) on the gearbox, you can peep inside with the endoscope (cheap USB one), to see clutch.
Gearbox (C514 family) should also "whine" under the load (when driving), not only at idle. Plus gear switching problems are common.
Check the leaks and oil level (or replace it, mostly to see the condition of the old oil, is there any debris and so on).
You can always DO something (not just wait until the car fails completely).

 

[Magistralis]

1. Mechanic will take care of it, but the sound is intermittent. So far I’ve taken it in two times to have them listen, but the sound disappeared before they could check. Only posting here for some guidance. But if that’s not what this forum is for I will go elsewhere.
2. The gearbox itself is rather clattery under low rpm load and has been for longer than I’ve owned it. What makes you say gearbox about this noise?

 

[GrandePunto PL]

1. Let the Mechanic diagnose/fix it. Your confusion doesn't help and you are not active about it (diagnosing, simple stuff, two people method and so on).
2. You just said that: gearbox is rumbling at low RPM (but this could be the engine too - in general FIRE engines don't like low RPM load). So?
DO something (actions from my previous post - they are the "guidance" you're looking for, practical advice), then we can talk.
Forum is NOT for wondering "what could it be", "what if" scenarios (without taking any action - you just hear the noise...and that's it: "it's confusing").

 

[Magistralis]

Yes, confusing because the mechanics have not been able to replicate or check the sound, as well as the changing conditions of when it happens. Considering this is the Grande Punto section, perhaps anyone would recognise it and say ‘yes that happened to mine and it was this’, but apparantly not. Thank you anyhow.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Your way (how you approach the problem) is not logical, not productive. It doesn't matter what it is, for You. You will not fix it yourself, so?
What's the difference (clutch or gearbox)? Both can fail in (20 years old) Grande. And can be replaced/repaired. Mechanic will do it (don't worry).

Sounds like the gearbox was neglected for months or YEARS (noise was there before you bought the car and it was ignored - nice).
Now you are "confused"?

You could pinpoint that noise (source), but this is not done from the driver's seat via smartphone...

 

[Zardo]

If the sound tends to disappear when the clutch pedal is pressed while in neutral at a stand-still, it rather points to the input shaft bearing, not so much to the clutch release bearing, since the input shaft stops rotating once the clutch pedal is fully pressed down (or at least it should)

If the sounds appears when the clutch pedal is pushed all the way down, it's likely the clutch release bearing or TBO.

 

[Mike1alike]

The noise starts when the car is warmed up (15-20 mins?) and is also audible when driving if you drop below 2000 RPM. Sometimes it goes away after a minute or so of idling, only to come back later. The noise does not always disappear when the clutch is depressed like in the video. Sometimes it quiets down, sometimes nothing changes. This makes it pretty confusing to me.

First thing, and that is caught in video too, noise is there and disappears when you press the clutch pedal. That looks very much like damaged input shaft bearing - the one in the gearbox.
Then, you say noise does not always disappear when clutch is depressed. Is it the same noise or actually a little bit different? That can be the clutch release bearing damaged. That is not unheard off, both of them damaged on the same time. That is absolutely possible and it actually happens more often than people think.
Here is our famous thread about replacing the gearbox bearing. It's on Punto but your gearbox is kind of the same.
www.fiatforum.com/threads/input-shaft-bearing-renewal.158346/post-1683002

 

[Mike1alike]

Only posting here for some guidance. But if that’s not what this forum is for I will go elsewhere.

Don't mind our colleague GrandePunto PL. That's his way of... being friendly! We got used to him.
You are right, forum is for that.
Welcome to the forum!

 

[Magistralis]

Appreciate all the input. This points me in a nice direction. I will probably head for the mechanic, considering they will have to drop the transmission for either job it might be worth to have them check both input shaft bearing and TOB and replace where necessary.

 

[Mike1alike]

I will probably head for the mechanic, considering they will have to drop the transmission for either job it might be worth to have them check both input shaft bearing and TOB and replace where necessary.

Exactly. That's a good plan. Also, while going on it, my advice is to put new gearbox shafts seals. The input one needs going at it l from inside the gearbox casing for replacement, so now is the best time to do them too.

 

[Magistralis]

Exactly. That's a good plan. Also, while going on it, my advice is to put new gearbox shafts seals. The input one needs going at it l from inside the gearbox casing for replacement, so now is the best time to do them too.

I’m aware how labor intensive replacing the clutch is, as well as doing an input shaft bearing - would doing the seals be another big-ticket item? Or would the extra cost in parts/labour not be that bad? I seem to have neglected to mention the car is at rougly 300k km / 190k miles. I don’t want to spend a ton unnecessarily.

 

[Mike1alike]

would doing the seals be another big-ticket item? Or would the extra cost in parts/labour not be that bad?

It really shouldn't be big nor bad at all. Having the gearbox down and bellhousing opened to get to the bearing it's a very easy job. About 15-20 mins. max to replace all 3 seals. Parts cost should no be bad at all either. Probably more nowadays than when I replaced mine in 2018, but still not something big.

 

[Magistralis]

Thank you so much, now I have something concrete to head to the mechanics with.

 

[Zardo]

If you don't want to drive the car like 4+ more years, but only like 1-2 years, maybe a less costly temporary solution would be to change the gear oil, examine visually if metal debris comes out (using some tissue as a filter) and fill in new gear oil with MoS additives. Also depends on your yearly mileage.



now, this won't guarantee a life extension of your bearings, the condition of which is unknown, but it might help temporarily and will cost much less. However, if some months later you decide to do the full repair anyway, then this will be money lost.

 

[Magistralis]

If you don't want to drive the car like 4+ more years, but only like 1-2 years, maybe a less costly temporary solution would be to change the gear oil, examine visually if metal debris comes out (using some tissue as a filter) and fill in new gear oil with MoS additives. Also depends on your yearly mileage.



now, this won't guarantee a life extension of your bearings, the condition of which is unknown, but it might help temporarily and will cost much less. However, if some months later you decide to do the full repair anyway, then this will be money lost.

Right now I’m at the point I’m debating whether to fix it or to replace the car entirely. It’s 20 years old with 300,000kms, nothing lasts forever. I really like the car as it’s comfortable to drive and fairly economical but it’s starting to become expensive to keep going. So either I’m spending money to keep it for a good while, or it’s going to be traded in.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Replacing the car is more expensive than fixing old one, most of the time (car's market price has little to do with "economic viability").
Your "new" (of course not a brand new?) car, will require some maintenance (maybe a repair) too... Maybe even a clutch...
Or...you can ignore noises for months (years)... Then swap the car again.

 

[Magistralis]

Replacing the car is more expensive than fixing old one, most of the time (car's market price has little to do with "economic viability").
Your "new" (of course not a brand new?) car, will require some maintenance (maybe a repair) too... Maybe even a clutch...
Or...you can ignore noises for months (years)... Then swap the car again.

Replacing the car will definitely be more expensive, true. But seeing what this car has cost me in repairs in the past two months alone (and time it has spent at the shop, 3+ weeks?) just to keep it on the road… it’s pretty much the end of road in my eyes.

I’ve decided to see how long it will last with these issues, see if it holds up some time longer. If the rest of the car decides to behave and no new unexpected breakages occur, I may fork over the money for a new clutch (perhaps input shaft bearings too).