Technical Timing marks?

[Martygf]

Just about to put the head back on my X, but can someone please confirm when i have to line up the timing marks on the crankshaft pulley ( and flywheel ) then the camshaft pulley - should this pulley be aligned when placing it back on top of the head? Not being a mechanic i just want to make sure i do it right first time. The Haynes manual shows timing marks on the belt cover but i do not have them on mine - although i thing these were only on the 1300`s.
Thanks all.

 

[jimbro1000]

It is best to get the crank timing set before refitting the head but it isn't really necessary, just easier. The engine is non-interference so there isn't an issue with piston/valve contact - otherwise you would need to set both timing marks up before re-assembly to at least some degree of accuracy.

The head timing marks are on the back of the camcover bracket (the metal part of the cover has a spike that aligns with a mark on the back of the pulley)

 

[Martygf]

It is best to get the crank timing set before refitting the head but it isn't really necessary, just easier. The engine is non-interference so there isn't an issue with piston/valve contact - otherwise you would need to set both timing marks up before re-assembly to at least some degree of accuracy.

The head timing marks are on the back of the camcover bracket (the metal part of the cover has a spike that aligns with a mark on the back of the pulley)

Thanks Jimbro - you seem to be the font of all things X1/9 here.
If i have had the head skimmed would this affect the non-interference of the engine components at all?
Also - should i take it that i set the timing marks to 0 degrees on rebuild? What cylinder should my rotor arm point to?
Thanks for your help.
Martyn

 

[jimbro1000]

The crank and cam timing marks should be set to zero for assembly. The advance is only set for ignition timing.

According to Fiat you should do the mechanical TDC timing for cylinder 4 but the ignition timing is done from cylinder 1 (180def off from your starting point).

The most accurate timing marks are those on the flywheel (behind the little square black plug on the bellhousing) assuming you have the cam timing right of course.

A skim of the head, unless quite radical in the amount of metal removed should not change the non-interference status of the engine.

I can't claim to be the font of all knowledge X1/9 related but I seem to have a knack for remembering a large chunk of it - that and I used to be technical advisor to the X1/9 owners club about 10 years ago...

 

[Martygf]

Thanks for the advice Jimbro. Will I need to change the shims as the head has been skimmed? I replaced the oil and filter a couple of weeks ago and intend replacing with new again because of the work carried out. Should I run the car first for a couple of minutes and then replace or replace before firing it up? Thanks again.
Martyn

 

[jimbro1000]

Which side of the head got skimmed?

Unless you've fitted a reground camshaft and had the cambox assembly skimmed there is no inherent need to reshim the valves - that said they will probably need doing anyway but only to get the valve timing perfect as opposed to very nearly right.

If it is just the combustion face of the head that was skimmed (as it normally) then the only real problem is that the cam timing will be off a little - not enough to cause problems though and the increase in compression will offset it. If the head has been skimmed a lot you would need a vernier pulley to make the timing correction but it simply isn't necessary for normal usage unless you are a real perfectionist.

 

[Martygf]

Thanks Jimbro

It was the combustion side of the head that has been skimmed. Will check valve clearances when back together just in case. However where do you get the shims from should i need them?
Martyn

 

[jimbro1000]

Try eurosport for shims

 

[Martygf]

Just put the timing belt back on with the cam wheel timing mark lined up with the correct mark on the cover back plate, together with the crank mark lined up with the timing bracket. However after turning over engine just to make sure belt was on and centred correctly, I noticed that the crank rotates twice for every rotation of the cam. How do I know which rotation is correct for timing as in theory I could be 180 out?

 

[Neojames2k]

For ignition timing line both crank and cam marks up with their respective marks and have the rotor arm pointing at the contact for no. 4 spark plug on the distributor cap. That should have you sorted

Cheers
Neojames2k

 

[Martygf]

Thanks Neo
That means I have done it correctly then, so will check valve clearances in the morning and hopefully they will be ok, otherwise it's more of a delay in getting it running again. Have cleaned and painted engine bay so will post photos when done. It's great to know that there are people out there still interested in this car and are willing to help others. Thanks again.

 

[Martygf]

Can anyone tell me the cold valve clearances for the 1500 x19 as the Haynes manual only shows for the 1300, unless they are the same? The clearances I have just measured from cylinders 1 to 4 are:- ex .45, I .38, ex .45, I .38, ex .45, I .38, ex .4, I .28.

 

[Neojames2k]

From what I've found elsewhere (don't ask where because I have no idea).

Inlet should be .279mm-.355mm
Exhaust should be .381mm-.457mm

These are only to 3 decimal places because I converted from old money

looks like your exhaust valves should be fine for a few miles at least, only need to change 3 of the inlet shims to get it perfect but you're not that far out on those.
I'd probably leave it a few hundred miles to let itself settle in and check again, being that close the the tolerance i would have thought you'd be fine for an mot emissions check.

As an correction to my previous post, the rotor should be pointing at no. 1 spark plug on the cap (trust me, i did it today)

Cheers
Neojames2k

 

[Neojames2k]

Interesting, Just read Fiat Factory's reply to your post on XWeb. Go with his since he's been working with fiats for years and from what I've read he knows what he's talking about

 

[Martygf]

Where can you get the shim removal tool from ( the one to push down the tapper ) as I have tried with a screwdriver but no chance. Would it be safe to run the car as is and would this affect emissions for an MOT?

 

[jimbro1000]

Getting hold of the tool would largely be a matter of luck these days - the odds of getting a new one from Fiat are bordering on non-existent.

It is more likely you can get one made as they are just pressed out of sheet steel if I recall correctly. I'm sure someone posted up a guide on how to make one on xweb years ago.

 

[Martygf]

Getting hold of the tool would largely be a matter of luck these days - the odds of getting a new one from Fiat are bordering on non-existent.

It is more likely you can get one made as they are just pressed out of sheet steel if I recall correctly. I'm sure someone posted up a guide on how to make one on xweb years ago.

Thanks for the input Jimbro.
Hired on from Eurosport for minimal cost - thanks Eurosport again! Adjusted clearance to Ex .55 and inlet .45 ( states Ex .6 and inlet .45 in owners manual ) as i was lucky enough to find a local Fiat dealer with shims! Seems a little "tappetty" after startup, which was only for 5 minutes mind. Should this be the case?
Cheers.