General The Multipla Experience

[SDP79]

[FONT=&quot]I've had my Multipla for about 3 months now and I think I should let you know my experience so anyone else buying can do so with eyes open etc.

The Car [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2003 JTD ELX One previous owner plenty of history and services etc. 58k. From condition it had been used on a school run short journeys primarily, with kids giving the car a bit of a hard life but had stood up reasonably well.

Good points

1) Love the space and seating arrangement very practical for transporting large items with seats out.
2) Good comfortable ride, plenty of power even with 6 on board - it’s not a sports car and those wanting an exhilarating driving experience please go elsewhere - this does what it says on the can - 6 in reasonable comfort!
3) Air con is 1st class even without rear vents (only floor vents) - ice cold and has not been serviced - if it a'nt broke don't fix is my motto here!
4) Cheap to buy compared with competitors of similar age and condition.
5) Parts reasonable cheap and readily available (few exceptions mentioned later)
6) Cam belt had been replaced.
7) Clutch had been replaced at approx 32k[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8) Plenty of Kit - electric windows, sunroofs(will mention later), PAS, ABS, electric mirrors, computer, Stereo plus CD changer, 6 speakers, 4 air bags, metallic paint, alloy wheels - list goes on.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9) Rear spring recall done.[/FONT]
10) The looks - quite unique and totally original compared to the new one and lets face it no one is going to steal it!

[FONT=&quot]
Bad points :bang:

1) Lots and Lots of chips scratches and splits to interior plastics - replacing as necessary when cash allows. Touch up paint used in earnest.
2) Seats a bit thread bear in the front though no holes or spits, and replacement coverings from Fiat a bit steep in price. Other aftermarket available but I am always dubious of the fit and they are still not cheap.
3) Faults that needed attention:
i) Fussy electrics which regularly play up usually problems with connectors - basically cheap rubbish used Fiat.
ii) Aux belt cracking and replaced never had one go till 100k plus before - probably due to all the twists and turns it needs to do to power all the auxiliary pumps etc. better to have two belts with less strain - negligible extra cost in manufacture. Usually there is an additional one for air con - if only one belt and it fails you lose everything!
iii) O/S Hand brake cable replaced - rubbing against N/S cable.
iv) Front drop links replaced - relatively cheap but a regular failure.
v) Crank shaft pulley replaced (attempt to reduce engine vibration on gear change - bit of an improvement).
vi) Rear brake shoes replaced nearly 60k and would probably go on for another 5k or so.
vii) Front pads and discs in near future (passed MOT and braking OK but rusty discs approaching end of life. Pads are 75% so it looks as if they have been changed!
viii) EGR valve cleaned (improved mpg by around 10mpg). Clogs up with carbon plenty of advice on how to go about this. From my exp. try to leave in place and remove the electrical solenoid only, the carbon builds up between this and the main body around the spacer which from what I can see provides some ventilation for the valve. Very awkward job to do, so be prepared for some shredded knuckles and a bad back.
ix) Full service all filters + oil and brake fluid change.
x) Probably needs Duel mass flywheel and another clutch replacement in near future - everyone I have spoken to agrees this was a poor move by Fiat and the results have been very disappointing. Bottom line it is fools economy to change clutch without changing flywheel as labour changes are only slightly more to change flywheel as well and the clutch needs to come out in any case along with the gear box - Yes I know the flywheel is at least £280 ish but doing the job twice is even more.
xi) Sun roof leak not resolved yet - unbelievably poor design.
xii) Front windscreen wipers replaced (cheap as chips off ebay)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] xiii) Most of electrical wiring under bonnet covered in some kind of waxy black bandage. Nearly all now hanging off and needs replacing.
ixv) Fuse box under bonnet does not close properly allowing debris and dirt in - bit frieghted to touch knowing the frail electrical system!
xv) Replace O/S/F door check strap - redesigned part from Fiat - actually an improvement!

Please remember that this vehicle was serviced regularly every year and apart from a rough ride with the kids it was in good condition. All the parts that needed replacing are down to poor quality control by Fiat or poor design by Fiat.

Those that had previously carried out service had a somewhat Freudian obsession with copper grease - basically anything exposed to elements was covered in it - screws, bolts, washers battery terminals, hinges etc. etc. resulting in large amounts of black gunge everywhere.

I had forgotten what poor quality control and standards of manufacture are as I was used to BMW and Toyota. Fiat are disappointingly refreshing.

So overall how do I feel. Well surprisingly OK. As long as I can get these things sorted and some kind of planned maintenance in place as well as routine servicing then I should be OK. I am not afraid to get my hands dirty but shy away from changing the clutch.

If you want to buy one of these for the reasons I first stated then DON'T pay much. Even new you can get some whacking discounts - I've seen new ones cheaper than used so watch out! But be prepared to spend some of that saving on some unexpected items that you never thought of. If its new and there is a warranty be prepared for some confrontation with the dealer as they will do all in their power to fob you off remember warranty claims are not popular with dealers as they only get fixed amounts from the manufacturer. Once it is sorted you will enjoy.

Good luck to everyone embarking on this adventure. I'll keep you updated on the sun roof issue. [/FONT]

 

[bertiethebluemulti]

Hi, Regarding your sunroof problem, although never had a problem with mine yet my brother did have a leak with his multis sunroof. He had Captain Tolleys Creeping Crack Cure ( ebay) recommended to him by someone on this forum. He used it and has never had a problem since. Cant tell where its been repaired either and sunroofs work how they should now . Just food for thought for you. Good Luck.

 

[SDP79]

Bertiethebluemulti

Many thanks for this. I have seen several links suggesting this solution, and this is one I will try. However I suspect that the water is coming in between the glass and the weather strip. Nearly all sunroofs leak a bit here and the water goes down the drain tubes and is never noticed. However on the Multipla there are no tubes to drain through! Amazing!

I did the old test of pouring water around the channel with roof open and closed some actually came out at the rear of the drivers wheel. I suspect that this is running along the headlining and down the A post. In the process it saturates most of what is hidden by the head lining.

You don't know you have a problem until the puddle in the head lining gets too much and sloshes out through the switches.

I'll bet if we looked behind nearly all Multipla head linings we would find the tell tale tide marks of water seepage. The thing is if the amount is only small it simply dries up and there are no other symptoms.

 

[Matthen]

Bertiethebluemulti

Many thanks for this. I have seen several links suggesting this solution, and this is one I will try. However I suspect that the water is coming in between the glass and the weather strip. Nearly all sunroofs leak a bit here and the water goes down the drain tubes and is never noticed. However on the Multipla there are no tubes to drain through! Amazing!

Cheap solution - gaffa tape them up - the AC is effective, and the windows are huge, no need for them. Stupid design, we wouldn't have em, but the dealer had the car - someone had speced and ordered it, but couldnt pay.

Gaffa tape seals them neatly though, at two quid a role you cant say no.

If you need them in the summer take the tape off and put new on again in the winter.

 

[SDP79]

Matthen,

[FONT=&quot]Yes know where you are coming from here. Out of choice I would never specify a sun roof especially with air con, but as this a used car then there we have it. I want them to work properly and from what I see of the condition of the controls and sunroof this should not be beyond any possibilities. There is no corrosion and the seals seem in pretty reasonable condition - even though there is a leak somehow. I have some ideas that I am going to try and I will post results.[/FONT]

 

[widemouthfrog]

To the best of my knowledge there are no drain tubes for the Multipla sunroofs. The inner trays/wells are not of the typical type for a sunroof - they are much shallower than most others I've seen. As you say, the headlining material is pretty waterproof/watertight, so the first you'll know of a problem is when sufficient water has collected to spill out of the lining (usually by running down the front pillar linings and into the front footwells or through the plastic access cover for the rear sunroof emergency manual winder, located between the two sunroofs).

I think the sunroof trays are an aluminium pressing and these are bonded to the (steel) roof panel. I suspect that the differential expansion of the two materials eventually does for the adhesive holding the two together. This is where the Captain Tolleys comes in - it is drawn into the fracture by capillary action and is resilient enough to keep a hold to both sides of the joint because it's silicone-based.

I hear what you're saying about the leak being between the actual glass and the rubber seal, but if this were the case it would have been present from day one (unless the rubber gets damaged). As an aside, because of the location of the rubber seals, if you did get a leak at that interface, a drain tube system wouldn't be of much help anyway!

 

[matt8772]

[FONT=&quot]I had forgotten what poor quality control and standards of manufacture are as I was used to BMW and Toyota. Fiat are disappointingly refreshing. [/FONT]

You obviously havent had many Toyota's recently then.

I worked as a Fiat DET for nearly ten years, and now work at a Toyota main dealer.

I certainly didnt see 3 engine rebuilds, from a bare block upwards, a week when I was at Fiat. Or flywheels & turbos on RAV4's, the former being 660 quid on its own, before fitment.

Or water pumps gone on every other car you service.

Or head gaskets gone on D4D engines on 59 plates.

Theres even a couple that have spent 5 grand in repairs on their RAV. in two years.

Try speaking to any Aygo owners about water leaks. Multipla water leaks from the twin roofs are very rare.

So while i agree that Multiplas and Fiats in general do have their moments, Im not so sure that you can compare them with each other with the Toyota as a benchmark.

 

[T14086]

If its new and there is a warranty be prepared for some confrontation with the dealer as they will do all in their power to fob you off remember warranty claims are not popular with dealers as they only get fixed amounts from the manufacturer.

I disagree here, warranty work is the basis of all dealership work & pays a reasonable amount. Mess a customer about with warranty & chances are his next purchase will not be a FIat.

3rd year warranty is a different matter, basically its a joke!

 

[lancia8888]

re sunroof; there are no drain tubes. The water just drips or pours ino the roof linning via the glass seal. This seal does not stick up enough to contact the glass to make a contact seal.I had a bug eyed multi and am now on a face lift, both clutches have been done, and on those occassions the clutch bearing had splayed out and failed. still plenty of groves on the clutch plate.( both done around 65k) The build quaility is much better on the facelift multi. I only have one door check strap to replace as all the others have been done. As I said the face lift multis are much better built, so if buying try and stretch to a flat nose.

 

[SDP79]

matt8772

Yes I must confess my last Toyota was 5 years back. Up to then I had owned Starlets, Corollas, Camry. Plus my father owned a good 8 in his time. None of them ever missed beat, so it is sad to hear they have retreated from this position. I will certainly bear this in mind for any future buys.

Many thanks

 

[SDP79]

T14084



I agree with the last part that a dissatisfied customer will not return and that is very much what I did with Peugeot. I'll touch on that later.

But warranty work is at a fixed price dictated by the manufacturer. If it is a simple matter of replacing a defective part - pumps, trim, seals etc., then they are on to a winner. But my reading of many of the posts is that some faults are intermittent, annoying and very difficult to diagnose. Such as leaks, rattles, poor mpg, air bag waring lights and so on.

These being difficult to diagnose are not what a dealer wants to tie up his resources with. They will try but if it looks like a no goer then they fob you off PDQ or give the old fable "Its a charachteristic of the vehicle" covers a lot of sins!

Likewise a warranty claim in the first months or year is usually well received however later claims certainly close to the warranty expiry are treated less sympathetically. Basically the fault has to be down to manufacturing defect. This is a big get out clause for a car that is approaching 3 yrs old. My experience with Peugeot can be summed up by one of the last statements that one of their customer advisors gave

"Well you do use that a Lot" - hence you can go whistle for any replacement which was the case with a whole lot of parts that simple were not up to the job. My solution - change car ASAP and never, ever, ever have a Peugeot again not if they were giving them away with 4 gallons of unleaded.
We shall have to wait and see how these 5 and 8 year warranties currently being offered by some manufacturers stand up.

Franchised garages make their money out of servicing and repairs outside of warranty.

Let me give you an example. I was recently contacted by my local dealer to come in for a free car health check and update any software. OK I said nothing to lose - yes I know they are going to find problems and give quotes but I would like to know.

One of the problems was "Dim number plate lights". The quote to fix this was -£17. Yes folks that’s right £17 to change 2 bulbs worth pennies. No skilled mechanic am I but 50p and 10mins later we were back in the bright lights. This is where they make the money and what they rely on. Many warranty claims are a pain once the fixed rate by the manufacturer has been exhausted.
The quote to replace one of the handbreak cables - yes only ONE was £170. The part cost was under £20 (part4you - fiat part probably twice the price and made in the same factory!), so that is nearly 2hrs of labour!

Oh and another thing check the price of oil on your next service - you probably know that you pay more than a can from halfords but it is nearly twice the price! Mark up by franchised garages is unbelievable. Hence in any case I take my own oil. In fact I would not mind paying a little over the odds as it saves me the trouble of going to get the oil but twice the price is liberty I am not prepared to indulge.


There you have it. I am glad that this thread has generated such diverse comments which is what the forum is all about

 

[SDP79]

re sunroof; there are no drain tubes. The water just drips or pours ino the roof linning via the glass seal. This seal does not stick up enough to contact the glass to make a contact seal.I had a bug eyed multi and am now on a face lift, both clutches have been done, and on those occassions the clutch bearing had splayed out and failed. still plenty of groves on the clutch plate.( both done around 65k) The build quaility is much better on the facelift multi. I only have one door check strap to replace as all the others have been done. As I said the face lift multis are much better built, so if buying try and stretch to a flat nose.

[FONT=&quot]I am glad to hear that they have fixed this. This implies that there is a problem but I bet we will have no luck in getting my car rectified to this standard.

The lack of drain tubes is a disgrace. A previous reply mentioned cost but by my calculations it would be less than 20 pounds at point of manufacture to have 4 tubes and a better designed sunroof tray.

By the way clutches seem to be frequently mentioned. What mileage was yours replaced, what condition was flywheel in and did you get anything back from fiat under a warranty[/FONT]?

 

[matt8772]

matt8772

Yes I must confess my last Toyota was 5 years back. Up to then I had owned Starlets, Corollas, Camry. Plus my father owned a good 8 in his time. None of them ever missed beat, so it is sad to hear they have retreated from this position. I will certainly bear this in mind for any future buys.

Many thanks

ah those were the days! a good old carina e with an 1800 or a startlet/corolla 1300 did the job!

dont get me wrong, im not trying to put you off buying a toyota again, their warranty is excellent and when its in for a warranty repair they go the whole hog to make sure it doesnt happen again.

was just trying to put across that every manufacturer has their problems and there seems to be an 'oh its a fiat it must be crap' mentality amongst the public.

then they go and buy a vauxhall cdti or a new shape Ka, which are basically fiats under a different badge!

 

[matt8772]

Franchised garages make their money out of servicing and repairs outside of warranty.

Let me give you an example. I was recently contacted by my local dealer to come in for a free car health check and update any software. OK I said nothing to lose - yes I know they are going to find problems and give quotes but I would like to know.

One of the problems was "Dim number plate lights". The quote to fix this was -£17. Yes folks that’s right £17 to change 2 bulbs worth pennies. No skilled mechanic am I but 50p and 10mins later we were back in the bright lights. This is where they make the money and what they rely on. Many warranty claims are a pain once the fixed rate by the manufacturer has been exhausted.
The quote to replace one of the handbreak cables - yes only ONE was £170. The part cost was under £20 (part4you - fiat part probably twice the price and made in the same factory!), so that is nearly 2hrs of labour!


There you have it. I am glad that this thread has generated such diverse comments which is what the forum is all about

its a difficult one.

franchised garages are expected to provide things such as courtesy cars, furnished waiting areas with tvs, internet access, coffee, tea, cars washed, specialist technician training, special tooling, visual safety reports, product reports to manufacturer's etc.

also most dealers have to have a sales section on site, they cant just be service only. we were told by my service manager the other day that a garage is usually structured so that sales is run at break-even, service/parts pays the bills and upsells etc are the things that make profit.

so when the manufacturer pays the dealer bugger all for a warranty repair, at a greatly reduced than retail labour rate, they have to try and make money elsewhere to cover the cost of these overheads.

i can see what youre saying. also from a tech's side of things it smarts a bit when you get paid 8 or 9 pounds an hour and the garage is charging 80 plus vat upwards. but i understand why its like it is.

i think independants will struggle soon too. especially ones that are signed to the good garage scheme. we had such a place ring up the other day saying 'erm, ive got a service booked in on an aygo, but it says i can only charge 0.4 to service it (24mins). that cant be right can it?'

yes it is, and thats to service the car, price up any parts it needs, do the visual safety report, do an aircon check, fill out all the necessary paperwork correctly and take it round for washing.

its the manufacturer that sets these times, another example being 0.6 to service a D4D avensis with a fuel filter change! daft, but when even service times are dictated by the manufacturer the garage has to make some money somewhere.

 

[T14086]

T14084

T14086

I agree with the last part that a dissatisfied customer will not return and that is very much what I did with Peugeot. I'll touch on that later.

But warranty work is at a fixed price dictated by the manufacturer. If it is a simple matter of replacing a defective part - pumps, trim, seals etc., then they are on to a winner. But my reading of many of the posts is that some faults are intermittent, annoying and very difficult to diagnose. Such as leaks, rattles, poor mpg, air bag waring lights and so on.

Yes & no, point is that warranty work is always there but retail work comes & goes.

These being difficult to diagnose are not what a dealer wants to tie up his resources with. They will try but if it looks like a no goer then they fob you off PDQ or give the old fable "Its a charachteristic of the vehicle" covers a lot of sins!

Yes agree, but this is where the DET comes into play. The DET is supposed to be non-efficient or at most 50% & the rest of the time he (she) gets the difficult diagnostic work etc as he (she) can spend time on the job & liasion with Fiat for additional info etc.
These days the DET is not recognised (or very rarely) hence the increase in customer issues not being resolved & reception telling the customer 'cant find fault or characteristic of hte car' as you said.

Likewise a warranty claim in the first months or year is usually well received however later claims certainly close to the warranty expiry are treated less sympathetically. Basically the fault has to be down to manufacturing defect. This is a big get out clause for a car that is approaching 3 yrs old. My experience with Peugeot can be summed up by one of the last statements that one of their customer advisors gave

I was recently contacted by my local dealer to come in for a free car health check and update any software. OK I said nothing to lose - yes I know they are going to find problems and give quotes but I would like to know.

One of the problems was "Dim number plate lights". The quote to fix this was -£17. Yes folks that’s right £17 to change 2 bulbs worth pennies. No skilled mechanic am I but 50p and 10mins later we were back in the bright lights.

In that case the garage lost money & you won

Oh and another thing check the price of oil

nothing

There you have it. I am glad that this thread has generated such diverse comments which is what the forum is all about

Exactly

 

[SDP79]

Clearly a difficult question this, the cost of service and parts from a franchise dealer.

I understand they have overheads and other costs that need to be accounted for. My issue is that there is no need to rip off the punter. Charge a fair price and give a sensible level of service and you will have them returning in their droves. Personally I am not interested in the age of the reading material or the coffee machine provided. I want my car fixed at a competative price. If I want a cappuccino I go to Costa (or Nero's)

I am prepared to pay a little over the odds to go to a franchise. However in this somewhat gloomy economic climate, I and I suspect many other car owners are looking for value for money.

The cost dealers charge per hour for labour is a joke and I am sorry to say is in- defendable. BMW one of the worst offenders here with charges of around £140/hr. They may be trying to subsidise their sales but I think this is a flawed business plan - Example:-

You buy a new car and it is heavily discounted - you're happy and to all external appearances so is the dealer.

Then when it comes to servicing you see that their prices are in the stratosphere compared to quality independents. So what do you do - you go elsewhere! This seems a recipe for ecconomic disaster on behalf of the dealership.
In this day and age running any vehicle is a costly proposition. Servicing and repairs are a practical necessity and no one likes paying. We all want a cheap, quality deal and are not prepared to subsidise other parts of a buisness or simply be ripped off.

Like insurance and when we bought the vehicle in the first place we are all shopping around for the best deal.

 

[T14086]

Clearly a difficult question this, the cost of service and parts from a franchise dealer.

I understand they have overheads and other costs that need to be accounted for. My issue is that there is no need to rip off the punter. Charge a fair price and give a sensible level of service and you will have them returning in their droves. Personally I am not interested in the age of the reading material or the coffee machine provided. I want my car fixed at a competative price. If I want a cappuccino I go to Costa (or Nero's)

I am prepared to pay a little over the odds to go to a franchise. However in this somewhat gloomy economic climate, I and I suspect many other car owners are looking for value for money.

The cost dealers charge per hour for labour is a joke and I am sorry to say is in- defendable. BMW one of the worst offenders here with charges of around £140/hr. They may be trying to subsidise their sales but I think this is a flawed business plan - Example:-

You buy a new car and it is heavily discounted - you're happy and to all external appearances so is the dealer.

Then when it comes to servicing you see that their prices are in the stratosphere compared to quality independents. So what do you do - you go elsewhere! This seems a recipe for ecconomic disaster on behalf of the dealership.
In this day and age running any vehicle is a costly proposition. Servicing and repairs are a practical necessity and no one likes paying. We all want a cheap, quality deal and are not prepared to subsidise other parts of a buisness or simply be ripped off.

Like insurance and when we bought the vehicle in the first place we are all shopping around for the best deal.

In theory the dealership (especially large chains) can out price anyone due to bulk buying power but in reality its a totally different story. Dealerships are manager (suits) top heavy and their wages have to be got from somewhere.

For the main dealerships I fear the writing is already not only written on the wall but embeded in the brickwork!

 

[SDP79]

In theory the dealership (especially large chains) can out price anyone due to bulk buying power but in reality its a totally different story. Dealerships are manager (suits) top heavy and their wages have to be got from somewhere.

For the main dealerships I fear the writing is already not only written on the wall but embeded in the brickwork!

Looks like you are with me on this one. It is for forums such as this to motivate members to demand value for money. As I have said I am willing to pay slightly over the odds for the service I get from a franchise. And yes I am sure there are some out there provide good service at a comparative price but regrettably they are few and far between.

As a dedicated motorist I want value for money and I feel it is the duty of sites such as this to highlight both value for money and rip offs.

Those that charge excessive prices should, by market forces, be driven out of buisness and healthy competion encouraged.

I will be watching this space and give advice on where I find good service and where I find poor service with regard to pricing and quality.

Let me start by being positive toward a dealer. I recently needed some replacement trim for the Multipla - caps for rear seats near seat belt anchorage - these were smashed probably when seat belt get trapped between door and seat. On recomendation from the fourm I tried Derira at Diss. Without asking I received some discount off the parts - many thanks will be doing business again.

Contrast this with Gyn Hopkin Chelmsford. I made polite enquiry about discount and told sorry that’s the price they pay and what we have to pay. Ok polite decline but sorry but no deal and no purchase from me. This excuse is rubbish and we all know that. Again I have no problem with the dealer making a profit. However this was a cold call from me for an odd part - dealer choice, make some profit or no profit - Glyn Hopkin chose the latter.

I will post this separately in the hope of getting other examples of good service to share.

 

[cfrost1]

Can you help me! I'm trying to find a part number in order that I may obtain the correct part. My air con has gone wrong and I need a new pump. Its a '54 model- after face-lift. my dealer won't help, the part doesn't have a number clearly visible. help please.

 

[widemouthfrog]

Try this to get a part number, but be warned the pump will be expensive to buy new:

Click on the ePER button at the top of this page. That will open a new browser tab or window, showing the Fiat parts system. Make sure the settings show 'English', 'English', 'Great Britain' and 'DX' then hit 'Go'.

Click on 'Spare Parts' then the top 'Fiat' selection. The mouse cursor makes it look like these aren't buttons, but they are.

The next page shows a list of Fiat models, at the bottom of which is a box to type in your VIN number (you'll find that on your V5 registration document). Once you've typed that in, the system should come back with the details of your specific car. More importantly, any navigation of sub-categories and parts that you make thereafter will be relevant to your car.

Sometimes ePER is a bit flaky. It often shows as 'system busy' or words to that effect.

At least once you've got the part number, you can phone around other parts distributors or breakers and check if they've got the correct part. Alternatively, if it is the pump that's packed up, you may be able to send it off to be refurbished.

Hope this helps!