Technical Tale of Woe!

[gull04]

Hi Folks,

I'd like to give a quick history of the car before I start my tale of woe!

I bought my wife an 08 plate Sedici 1.9 diesel 4X4 new, the dealership was 115 miles away and they agreed to service it at the Peugeot franchise that was only 85 miles away. The car was serviced by them without incident until just less than a year ago. When it developed a problem, the symptoms of which were that it went into limp mode - turned out that they couldn't reset the Oil Use system and the car decided the oil had never been changed. This was rectified by an other FIAT dealer in Inverness.

The only other fault that the car has had to have corrected was a duff EGR valve. The car now has 48K on the clock and until Tuesday all was well.

I regularly check the fluid levels and usually drive the car about once a week when I fill it for herself, a round trip of 18 miles.

My current problem started when the wife left home to drive to Ft William - 80 miles about 15 mins after she left she called and said that she had broken down.

I drove to her location and asked what the symptoms had been, here description follows.

The first thing that she noticed was that there was no heating, then the car seriously started to lose power, the Oil warning light came on and the car stopped.

OK, lets go through the basic and see if it's anything obvious I thought - I used to do all my maintenance when I was younger and had the time to do it while waiting for a very, very, very nice man.

As the Oil warning light had come on - check the Oil - all OK up to the top mark on the stick.

There was no heating check the coolant level - again all OK - But the level was a little lower than expected. (Still well above the minimum.)

Check for any emulsification of Oil in the head area - WOW! - the cam shaft is burnt black and there is not a trace of Oil so given that the wife hasn't been using the car for about a month. This is more than a little worrying, lets keep checking the basics I thought

Further check reveal that the timing belt has been shredded, there is no trace of any leaks.

It has been a long time since I have had an engine to bits - probably 25 years - but at a guess I'd say that either an oil pressure relief valve has jammed or the Oil pump failed causing the cam shaft to seize which has caused the timing belt failure. As the car has less than 50K on it I'm not best pleased and was wondering if anyone else has any information that might be relevant. I have quite a lot of respect for the FIAT 1.9 JTD, the engine is a good engine. I have driven huge mileages in various diesels - I covered 502K in four years in a Citroen BX19D - while doing all my own repairs without incident.

I just wondered if anyone on the forum has experienced anything similar or has heard of anything similar. I'd appreciate any feedback, as I think that I'm going to have to replace the engine in this one - something I've never had to do in any vehicle before!

I will keep this post updated and let people know what is happening, as at this moment the car has been with the FIAT main dealer for two days and I haven't even had a call to say that they have received it.

Regards

Dave

 

[chumbamoo]

Hi Dave,

Sounds like your having a nightmare at the mo.


Looking at some of the "jtd" diesel engine, cambelt threads in the forum suggests waterpump seizure maybe a weakness.

Pump seizes then snaps the belt.


Any funny noises noticed before or mentioned at the last service?

Definiteley Anti-Freeze in the coolant?


At just under 60k miles, had our belt, waterpump and tensioner done at an independant garage using their own part supplier... 1 month later heard a screeching metal bearings noise when cold so took it back to them to check.... good job, new waterpump was on its way to seizing!

Seems sad your engine should fail at such low mileage after keeping it serviced.

Keep us posted.

 

[tinytim]

the diagnosis lies in the history:
at 48K cambelt, tensioners & water pump should already have been changed
car not used for a month.........water pump bearings dry out, cambelt gets stiff
heating stops ie water pump has failed
loss of power due to overheating
oil pressure drops due to overheating
cambelt snaps due to extra strain due to seized water pump
the good news is that the pistons on the JTD will usually survive a broken cambelt some or all of the valves will be bent though
Either get the cylinder head repaired or replace it with a used one; you do not need a new engine;
always replace the cambelt, tensioner & water pump on the JTD engine at 40000 miles or 5 years
ps see other posts re EGR valve

 

[gull04]

Hi Folks,

Not much good news on this front, it seems the following is the outcome of this one.

The water pump has siezed as has the Vacuum pump, stripping the teeth of the timing belt and shearing the vacuum pump drive posts completely trashing the top end of the engine. Not unexpected I must admit, however I'm not very pleased about it - for a component like a water pump to fail at 48K is pretty poor. I thought that my 130 Coupe was a bit of a maintenance nightmare, but having just had a quote from FIAT of £2500 for this repair - it doesn't seem so bad.

I've been offered a cheap job, by the FIAT dealer as well - just so as you have a balanced view the cheap job is £1900 both prices include VAT - bargain eh?

So I'm just going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but it isn't very palatable - so I'll now be getting rid of the Sedici. Still I've put my spare car back on the road a 1999 Subaru Legacy 2.5 Quad Cam Auto, it had lain in the garden for two years Sorned - put a new battery in it and it started first turn of the key. Got it MOT'd the same day, needed three tyres and a new tail pipe.

So this will be my last ever FIAT, having had several in the past including a 130 Coupe as mentioned above, an 850, an Argenta (wrote that one off) an a couple of others all of which loved to be driven with the valves dancing on the bonnet - had I been driving the Sedici the same way I shudder to think what might have happened with no brakes or power steering when the vacuum pump failed.

Anyway I said I'd update you, well there is the tail end of the tale of woe.

Regards

Unhappy Fiat Owner - soon to be EX Fiat owner.

My Old Man always said Italians were great lovers but lousey engineers - I feel he may have been right - even after years of telling him he was talking rubbish!

 

[roob]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.
I have had nothing but problems since buying a 2008 1.9 diesel Sedici last year. So far it has needed work on the DPF and a new egr valve. The gear linkage broke last week and I'm still trying to get it repaired (problems sourcing parts).
I think yours is a cautionary tale and I may end up with a similar nightmare if I don't get rid of the car now.
It looks like I'm also a soon-to-be-ex Fiat owner.

 

[Nello]

Its does seem to be that there are far more issues with the Oil-burning Sedici than the Petrol car...... To put things into perspective our 1.6 Petrol has covered 45,000miles in our ownership and aside from normal service items has only needed a wheel bearing and an Air-Con pipe.

 

[tinytim]

Neither the car nor fiat can be blamed if components failures occur because the car has not been correctly and timely serviced.
The 1.9JTD is a powerful economical engine. I have one in my Marea estate that has now done 180,000 miles and apart from service items I have only had to replace the power steering pump and block off the EGR valve.
Only a lunatic would get repairs done at a Fiat dealer when a car is outside the warranty.
A replacement cylinder head (or reconditioning the damaged one), a used vacuum pump and new water pump, cambelt etc & labour should not come to more than £1000 at an independent garage........