Tuning T-Jet VL37 to VL36 turbo swap

[drvi]

Hi guys, I'm new here and hope somebody can help me out here as quite a few have done this job already.

so I got now a new VL36 and want to swap is asap.
Unfortunately I didn't get any new seals with it.

Regarding the swap I hope somebody can give me a tip, what the easiest way is. I could do a manual for this forum if it works out well. I see 3 options but I bet one is wrong:

1. Change the whole turbo, so taking all coolant pipes off, 4 bolts underneath the turbo and 4 nuts to the cat pipe. That would require new gaskets all round right?
2. Changing only cold side. So you take the bolts off that hold the aluminium compressor housing in place (marked in yellow in the picture). Actuator would be loose, but could stay in, right? What about the compressor wheel? Do I change that, and how? In this case I wouldn't need new seals, as the hot side stays in.
3. Unbolt the V clamp in the middle of the turbo (marked in green), so change the compressor housing/wheel and the cooling centre part. Now I don't think that is what I should do, but I don't know.

(not my picture btw, found on google)


As you can see I try to find the easiest/quickest/safest way of doing the job. The car has been really good to me, especially on the Nürburgring, and I want to keep it that way.

 

[Reuuk]

Hi guys, I'm new here and hope somebody can help me out here as quite a few have done this job already.

so I got now a new VL36 and want to swap is asap.
Unfortunately I didn't get any new seals with it.

Regarding the swap I hope somebody can give me a tip, what the easiest way is. I could do a manual for this forum if it works out well. I see 3 options but I bet one is wrong:

1. Change the whole turbo, so taking all coolant pipes off, 4 bolts underneath the turbo and 4 nuts to the cat pipe. That would require new gaskets all round right?
2. Changing only cold side. So you take the bolts off that hold the aluminium compressor housing in place (marked in yellow in the picture). Actuator would be loose, but could stay in, right? What about the compressor wheel? Do I change that, and how? In this case I wouldn't need new seals, as the hot side stays in.
3. Unbolt the V clamp in the middle of the turbo (marked in green), so change the compressor housing/wheel and the cooling centre part. Now I don't think that is what I should do, but I don't know.

(not my picture btw, found on google)


As you can see I try to find the easiest/quickest/safest way of doing the job. The car has been really good to me, especially on the Nürburgring, and I want to keep it that way.

Did you only get the turbo its self? or did it come with the actuator also?

your best bet is to remove the manifold and fix the new turbo that way, your gaskets should be fine to use again. (method 1 as you call it)

 

[drvi]

Did you only get the turbo its self? or did it come with the actuator also?

your best bet is to remove the manifold and fix the new turbo that way, your gaskets should be fine to use again. (method 1 as you call it)

It's a brand new unit with the actuator, just no new gaskets.

Remove the manifold? Do you mean the cat/downpipe or the manifold from engine to turbo?
Was hoping to keep the manifold in place and take the 4 bolts underneath the turbo off.

 

[aurick86]

Remove and replace the entire turbo.
If you try to install just part of it and unbolt the compressor wheel.. you will not be able to balance it.. and the turbo would self destruct in a few thousand miles at the most.

Just remove the turbo including oil pipes and coolant pipers, remove the bolts from the exhaust manifold and precede to replace.
Best thing would be to order the missing gaskets, this way you lessen the chance to redo the job.

 

[drvi]

Remove and replace the entire turbo.
If you try to install just part of it and unbolt the compressor wheel.. you will not be able to balance it.. and the turbo would self destruct in a few thousand miles at the most.

Just remove the turbo including oil pipes and coolant pipers, remove the bolts from the exhaust manifold and precede to replace.
Best thing would be to order the missing gaskets, this way you lessen the chance to redo the job.

Thanks dude, will do that.

Gaskets seem to be a pain to find, just found one. Waiting all day for a call from fiat, they seem to struggle too.

 

[Matthewr1990]

Thanks dude, will do that.

Gaskets seem to be a pain to find, just found one. Waiting all day for a call from fiat, they seem to struggle too.

To benefit most from the new turbo you will need a Remap.

 

[aurick86]

totally agree on the remap.. but it should still work without any problems without a remap, till you want to put some more money into it. Obviously you wont get the power increase( or if you do it will be minimal).

 

[drvi]

Forge intercooler is on its way and than it's gonna be remap.

Red Dot right???

Was fitting the turbo last night, but the nuts rusted and seized.
Had the cat off and tried to undo them from the manifold, but rounded off.
Put everything back together so I can go to work, but no new turbo in yet.

Looks like need to get some new nuts, take the manifold with the turbo off and work them on a bench.
Anyone else had that problem??

 

[aurick86]

Common problem.. next time just cut them off if they are rounded.
Else use heat ( propane ..or better oxyacetylene)
better yet.. heat and impact gun.

 

[drvi]

angle grinder, massive hammer, fire and vodka will do.

I have good tools for the job, but because of the manifold next to those nuts, a spanner was all that fitted

 

[Sweex]

Dont go to red dot, go to tony at tune4performance in watford, he is fantastic.

 

[drvi]

guys can anyone help. I'm totally stuck on removing the turbo.
This is my second try. On the first one I couldn't remove the 4 nuts that hold the hot side to the manifold. I planned to remove the turbo together with the manifold and work on them on the bench, but the manifold nuts are covered by the heat shield and the heat shield is stuck under the turbo.

Can anyone give a magical tip? I managed to get one loosen, but I struggle to get to the other ones. The spanner rounds them off and the mole grips reach only the one I managed to get loose.

This is where I am on at the moment:

 

[drvi]

this guy here took the heat shield off while the turbo is still on:
[ame]http://youtu.be/MuTeFpThcVE?t=5m3s[/ame]

should I just bend or cut it into pieces or something? But I need it after

 

[Reuuk]

this guy here took the heat shield off while the turbo is still on:
http://youtu.be/MuTeFpThcVE?t=5m3s

should I just bend or cut it into pieces or something? But I need it after

that video clearly has no front end on the car making it easy!


unfortunately when we changed Sweex turbo we had to cut the manifold heat shield off.


tip. when you get the utter B****rd off throw it in the air and then stamp all over it as a victory dance.

 

[Sweex]

that video clearly has no front end on the car making it easy!


unfortunately when we changed Sweex turbo we had to cut the manifold heat shield off.


tip. when you get the utter B****rd off throw it in the air and then stamp all over it as a victory dance.

Exactly this!
Bend and cut it until it comes out!! Youll get there eventually.

Then as Reuuk says, do a really heavy, stompy victory dance all over the heat shield.

 

[Sweex]

By the way, i havent reused mine and its fine

 

[drvi]

but I like my heat shield......

anyway, I noticed the guy in the video took those 3 threaded pins that hold the heat shield from the manifold off. That would let the heat shield slide to the front and then you can replace them with simple bolts I guess.

Haven't done it yet

 

[drvi]

ok guys, I thought I share my experience you at swapping the VL37 turbo to a VL36. Might interest somebody who is tempted.

I hit trouble to get the turbo off and as it's my daily and I rely on it, I decided to give the job to a fiat garage of trust. They didn't manage to change the turbo in a day, but dealt with it very well and got it sorted by next morning. They had the same issues like me with seized bolts basically. I'm glad i didn't had to deal with it.

Prior to that I had already a forge inter-cooler fitted, that was working just fine.

Happy to get it back from the garage, I discovered an issue. NO POWER. or NO BOOOST.
I put the food down and it cuts the boost off. About half throttle it does give a bit of boost, but that's just wrong. You can tell the engine want to give more, but it's just blocked by something.

I started checking the data on it and created a log file with this:

Whenever I put the foot down, it opens the waste gate and I loose all boost. Everything in the chart is pretty much wrong. All I get is about 0.2 bar. But on half throttle it's getting even over 1 bar. I couldn't find any boost leak and it did create high boost, even tho on just half throttle. I decided it's something with the boost control and found it. The boost control solenoid has 3 pressure lines and the garage swapped two of them wrongly. Changed that, all was good and I did an other logging run:

Boost build up to the desired boost, but more importantly, the VL36 gives me a new torque line and I love it. Torque is steady between 60% and 75% (I shifted from 3rd to 4th at 120s). Don't know how much torque that actually is, but I will find out when I get it mapped.

Now what does that actually mean to me? The VL37 drop of torque I had was clearly noticeable to me, but even then, I absolutely love this little thing. It got me through a lot in the last 5 years, including 23 laps on the Nürburgring, a few track days, Europe wide trips like 9000 feet high up and 3000 miles in two weeks with the Nürburgring in between.

Nürburgring: I overtook 5 Porsches, 2 on my best lab where one of the Porsches crashed into a wall just after I overtook him. Imagine his day: getting overtaken by a box standard fiat and then crash into a wall He did my day. My best lap time is a 9:45 with a 9:32 ideal lap time:

Trackdays in UK: Well similar story:

and ...


This was all as a box standard T-Jet, so you can guess how much I am looking forward to go on the track with a VL36 and a remap. The VL36 shows already from experience a big difference to the VL37. Yes the peak torque is the same and some may say there isn't much difference, but if you spend 4 hours on the track a day, you notice the difference in torque line instantly.

I believe there is a special place reserved in sexy heaven for Fiats overtaking Porsches.
Hope there are more people with the same view

 

[xjairusx]

Awesome videos ,

I don't suppose any of you know the correct size for the v-band on the VL37 turbo between the two housings or perhaps I can get it from fiat?

 

[aurick86]

Awesome videos ,

I don't suppose any of you know the correct size for the v-band on the VL37 turbo between the two housings or perhaps I can get it from fiat?

I would try a turbo repair place...they should be able to track the part you need.