Tuning supercharged cinq

[MazCinq]

ok here we are lads and lasses i have been doing alot of looking into this and with the help of a supercharger specailist i am prepared for doing this now

i was planning to do this in 6 months or so but since the kind fokes at the dvla are taking my liecence away in a few weeks cos of the meds i am about to go on i have decided to take the car off the road and do it over the next few months maybe a year so if anyone wants the novitec inlet box check classifeds

right first thing to do is relocate the altinator to make room for the supercahrger will post pics when i have them

what i want to know is (and this is aimed at turbo owners) where have you guys mounted the intercooler and what size did you use?

 

[custard]

you will see most fit it to the right of the rad,as you will see in most TB cinq pics

 

[allanhelen]

Depending on how fast you spin the charger you might not need one anything up to 1.93:1 pulley ratio on an M45 you don't really need one.

The problem with fixed displacement chargers is you need keep the throttled volume as low as possible to keep drive-ability usually there is a throttle plate pre charger in most appications so by adding an A/A intercooler into the mix can cause issues. You can just put a throttle plate after the charger but then you end up with a lot of noise or you add duel TB's which means you can run huge intercoolers without a problem

Have you looked into charge coolers (A/W intercoolers)

 

[arc]

Another few issues to consider;

Space - there is none. If you relocate the rad, there is *possibly* enough room to physically fit an M45 there. Using a PAS pulley from a mk1 punto might be able to provide drive to it. Fook knows about routing the pipes though.

Cost - if you can't fit an M45, you'd be looking at Rotrex (bend over please)

Drive - There was a supercharged 1242 16v Punto on here, in the end it died when the 'key' sheared off the crank pulley, the timing slipped and it became an ex engine. How do you plan to drive it?

 

[Adrian Bravo]

Instead of putting the charger up high can you get it down low at the sump kind of level? Its Just an idea, I dont know anything about superchargers.

 

[arc]

that's what i meant re moving the rad. I *think* using the mounting points for the PAS pump (they should still be on the block) you *could* fab a frame to hold one down there.

 

[carmadrory]

my rad on my xe sei

is in the bumper (litterly)

 

[MazCinq]

i have been doing loads of chatting to the supercharger expert that is local to me and the idea we have come up with is to mount the charger where the altinator is and relocate that as it needs alot less space and looking there is alot of space (well enough) for the mini cooper charger i am going to use with a standard charger pully running off the crank pully i am only looking at running .4-.5 bar boost with bigger injector and a full remap or new engine managment the only other thing he said was bigger TB but that is done with the tricker 40 mm he is predicting 140+bhp but i only want 110ish as for piping the inlet its going to be tricky but do-able also he has recomended an intercooler as its a sensible thing to do

the prob with moving the rad and mounting it down the front is the exhaust and the heat that it will be generating so that was ruled out straight away

and yes there is going to be alot of custom fabbing of mounting brackets and boost plates to mout to the charger as it is a totally custom job and there wont be any off the self parts for this

yes it is sounding like alot of work but as far as i am aware it will be unique which is the idea

believe me i have looked at every aspect of doing this oh and as for the specialist guy i am speaking to 2 years ago they helped a guy supercharge a 1275 mini cooper with great success so i am taking he word on the matter the reason why i wont need a second injector like with turbo's is the charger is always spinning and needing a little more fuel hence going for bigger injector and fuel pump

 

[arc]

the prob with moving the rad and mounting it down the front is the exhaust and the heat that it will be generating so that was ruled out straight away

not true at all. I moved the rad on my car when it was a 1242 8v, and it cooled MUCH better.

again though, how are you planning to drive the charger. what are you doing to sort out the weak crank pulley?

 

[MazCinq]

thanks arc i meant the charger will be too close to the exhaust (if not be in the way) lol and i am getting custom pully wheels made as the stock alt pully is only a 4 groove and the charger is 6 groove so its going to be a custom crank and alt pullies made for strenght and extra grooves may even see if i can get a one piece crank pully made but it will be a **** come timing belt change lol but yes that is on my list of things to check and sort out and yes i know the ignition timing thingy is taken off that pully so it will all be taken into account

 

[arc]

ahh yeah now i see!

re the pulleys though, it isn't the strength of the actual pulley that i'm waffling on about...

The aux pulley bolts onto the crank timing pulley, which is keyed to the crank - and then has an "OMG!!!11 THAT'S REALLY TIGHT!!11" bolt in it. When trying to use to drive a charger, it has in past attempts - sheared off. The end of the crank is tiny, and may be very difficult to drill and fit dowels to it.

Have a read through daves thread; https://www.fiatforum.com/punto/89930-punto-supercharged.html

 

[Adrian Bravo]

I doubt this will help but some sneeky space saving here;

On the front of My 1.4(1370) block it had an aircon mount with threaded holes. Probably could have modded on a super charger nicely.

 

[arc]

rotrex charger = £1k+ though.

 

[Adrian Bravo]

I mean the backwards alternator

 

[arc]

not worked on a cinq then?

 

[carmadrory]

not worked on a cinq then?

lol

i have to take my engine out to tension the timing belt

never mind change it

 

[arc]

ouch!

can just about do it in situ on my 1368cc 16v, but only due to cam locks!

 

[MazCinq]

ok read the thread on the supercharged punto1242 and it wasn't crank failiure he said it was HG failure that ended it for him but still it has put a doubt in my mind and i will be looking into a stronger if not custom crank now the bill is starting to rise but hey it wont be on the road for at least 6 months so can take my time and save money on fuel and get the the mountain bike back out will get fit too thous saving wieght when its done lmao

 

[allanhelen]

Err no it wasn't it was the crank key that sheared, funilly enough I've been advising DTT on supercharging his latest toy an MX-5

You know there are some cars that just shouldn't be supercharged, you mentioned the mini so just look to the GT17 turbo that Jason (fordcosworth) fitted to his 1242 8v as this is the choice for serious mini tuners. The rev hungry tendency of the FIRE engines are crying out to be turbo'd not charged

And if you really think a bigger spi injector and a remap will work as a fuelling solution and still be drivable and a 40mm TB is needed when all M45 set ups use at least 52mm then the meds that have stopped you driving have affected you more than you realise

 

[MazCinq]

errmmmmm ok well for a kick off i haven't started the meds and to be honest personally i dont know much about it but i am going off what the charger guy is saying and i kind of trust him and believe what he says as he preps mini cooper s race cars he helped with the supercharged mini and he really really knows what he is doing but hey i will get it started and let you all know how it goes and to be honest i have an idea in my head and yes there are a few that have been genuinly helpful but there seem to be a few on here that just seem to be doom and gloom i am fully aware this wont be easy and its going to be trial and error as to what works and what doesn't all i am posting in here was for the purpose of allowing other members to see what i was upto but all i seem to get is doom and gloom and the general feeling i get is that everyone thinks i am going to fail and so what if i do at least i am daring to be different