Technical Strange Alternator on TDds

[Ziomike]

The battery light (on another a TDs we've just bought) takes it's time about going out at tickover (800rpm), bump that up to 1000 and it goes out in a few seconds, ok reasonably normal.

Now the other night I noticed it went out at about 1000-1200 and came back on at about 2800, so going up/down the gears the battery light is going on and off like a traffic light !. Not seen this one before and I've come accross most of the alternator probs.

Don't notice anything during the day other than very occasionally it just about glows at tickover.

Any ideas ?, don't want to change it untill i have to as it's awkward to get to.

 

[pycoed]

Could be brushes on the blink. Officially you are not supposed to be able to change these, but I've done so twice on separate Fiats (Uno & tempra TD).
On the Tempra you are right it's a pain to get the alty off so just remove the black plastic cover from the alternator rear, then two 8 or 10mm nuts & the brushes & rectifier pack come off. You may be able to get the rectifier pack (should be about 18-£20) but if not, just carefully unsolder the brushes , then match them at an auto electrics depot. Just get as near a fit as you can 'cos they can be filed to exact size very easily. Don't put too much heat into the rectifier pack when resoldering & you should be OK for less than a fiver!

 

[Ziomike]

It's just strange that the problem appears between a rev range, I've had brushes go before and they have just gone, that's it alternator dead. Its almost as if the alternator is low on power, it eventually does the job just takes time, I've measured the voltage and it seems fine.

I have now found a company that sell alternator bits, brush boxes, rotors, stators, regulators, bearings, slip rings, they are Wood Auto Supplies, Huddersfield, West Yorkshire - www.woodauto.com - you can buy online. I have kept the last alternator I changed and am going to get the bits to rebuild it so the current one can be replaced.

Never though about just replacing the brushes in situ, good idea.

 

[melvista]

Could be brushes on the blink. Officially you are not supposed to be able to change these, but I've done so twice on separate Fiats (Uno & tempra TD).
On the Tempra you are right it's a pain to get the alty off so just remove the black plastic cover from the alternator rear, then two 8 or 10mm nuts & the brushes & rectifier pack come off. You may be able to get the rectifier pack (should be about 18-£20) but if not, just carefully unsolder the brushes , then match them at an auto electrics depot. Just get as near a fit as you can 'cos they can be filed to exact size very easily. Don't put too much heat into the rectifier pack when resoldering & you should be OK for less than a fiver!

Hello, I am new on this forum and this is my first post! I have an alternator problem on my Tempra 1.9 TD Estate and the Fiat dealership quoted me the
high price of £287 plus VAT to replace with an exchange unit. When I said that I thought this was expensive they told me that was for a Marelli but that the Bosch would have cost me £400!

So I went and bought new brushes unit and rectifier unit from LucasUK and now just need to fit these parts! I have been quoted £90 plus VAT and the guy reckons it takes 3 hours and involves removing a drive shaft plus having to re-tension cam belt. Being disabled, I am unable to get underneath the car so I am unable to say. Does £90 plus VAT sound fair for this job?

Perhaps somebody on this forum knows the proper procedure for removal of alternator. I must admit that the idea of changing these parts in situ appeals to me and if I could find somebody who can do this for me at a reasonable charge for their labour, would seem to be the best option.

 

[Ziomike]

the Fiat dealership quoted me the high price of £287 plus VAT to replace with an exchange unit. When I said that I thought this was expensive they told me that was for a Marelli but that the Bosch would have cost me £400!

So I went and bought new brushes unit and rectifier unit from LucasUK and now just need to fit these parts! I have been quoted £90 plus VAT and the guy reckons it takes 3 hours and involves removing a drive shaft plus having to re-tension cam belt. Being disabled, I am unable to get underneath the car so I am unable to say. Does £90 plus VAT sound fair for this job?

Perhaps somebody on this forum knows the proper procedure for removal of alternator. I must admit that the idea of changing these parts in situ appeals to me and if I could find somebody who can do this for me at a reasonable charge for their labour, would seem to be the best option.

Fiat replacement alternators are *very* expensive. For a good supply of alternator parts try Wood Auto Supplies - http://www.woodauto.com/vehicle.aspx - and for recon alternators I have found Lectrostart - http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Electrostart - very good and reasonably priced, a guaranteed alternator for my Tds cost £70.

From under the car the brushes can be replaced in situ apparently having removed the casing, but the rectifier unit will need the removal of the alternator as you have to take the alternator down into component parts and unsolder the stator coils.

I presume you have a TDs (as this is a TDs thread), the alternator on these is a bit of a so & so to get out and takes me about 2.5-3 hours. If it's a 1.6Ie the alternator on these will come out from under the engine as the space is larger, so it takes about 1.5 hours. I've had both models and have changed the alternator on both.

Neither car requires a drive shaft removal or cam belt re-tension but they will need the alternator belt re-tensioning, not difficult.

 

[melvista]

Thanks, Ziomike for your response to my query.

Yes, it is a TD estate that I have (1.9) and after reading your comments, it would seem that it IS a swine to remove the alternator and your comments that it takes 2.5-3 hours is consistent with what I have been told by the garage but he claims the drive shaft has to be removed which I thought seemed unnecassary and you confirm it.

Well I am still looking for someone able and willing to do this job. I already have the bits (new brush and rectifier) so we'll see if I can find somebody.

Good luck with your alternator and I hope you get it working properly soon for with dark evenings drawing in quickly there is a lot of extra load on the battery. I appreciate your advice.

 

[SquarePeg]

I had alternator probs on a TD as well and found all I needed was to change the brushes. Easily done from underneath but I had a friendly Fiat Specialist garage who let me use a lift.
I certainly wouldn't want to try it without the car lifted way up in the air.

 

[melvista]

I had alternator probs on a TD as well and found all I needed was to change the brushes. Easily done from underneath but I had a friendly Fiat Specialist garage who let me use a lift.
I certainly wouldn't want to try it without the car lifted way up in the air.

Thanks SquarePeg, the problem seems a little easier with every piece of advice that I read. I am waiting for a callback (after leaving a message) from such a garage as you describe and the sooner this gets fixed the happier I shall be!

 

[pycoed]

On my Tempra TD, what I did was to undo all the bolts holding the alty, then try to manouevre it out between the drivehaft & rack. Failed after 45 mins of fiddling, so had the bright idea of removing the bits from the alty, leaving the thing sitting on the driveshaft. You can manoevre the alty around to get at all the necessary 8 or 10 mm bolts quite easily. ( I take the point the car needs to be up - in my case I have a pit).
Having replaced the brushes/rectifier(regulator?) & the black plastic cover the whole shebang was now ready to be refixed, belt tensioned & electrics re-connected, so I started to move the alty back into its right position. B*gger me if it didn't slip, & entirely by itself, fall out past the driveshaft & into the pit!! Fortunately it landed "square " so was OK, but I now had the job of getting the bl**dy thing back on, which took another 45 minutes of fiddling. But - it CAN be done.
I reckon if you show this to the mechanic, it shouldn't take more him more than 90mins to do the job, leaving the alty in situ but loose as I did. I'd put a new polyvee belt on, & be prepared to get it retensioned a week or so later, they seem to stretch quite a bit.

 

[Ziomike]

On my Tempra TD, what I did was to undo all the bolts holding the alty, then try to manouevre it out between the drivehaft & rack. Failed after 45 mins of fiddling, so had the bright idea of removing the bits from the alty, leaving the thing sitting on the driveshaft.

On one of our 1.9Tds's, i also gave up after 45 mins of fiddling, and it looked like it only needed that extra 5mm or so to get it out. I didn't thinks about doing it in place. The other 1.9Tds still has the strange indicator light on-off problem, does not seen to have changeed in the last month.

I reckon if you show this to the mechanic, it shouldn't take more him more than 90mins to do the job, leaving the alty in situ but loose as I did. I'd put a new polyvee belt on, & be prepared to get it retensioned a week or so later, they seem to stretch quite a bit.

Having now rebuilt the alternator as a spare after replacing it (Tds #1), i now think that if you remove the cover and then the three main bolts and splitting the two halves of the alty, it should then come out quite easily.

My 1.6Ie was complelely different, the alty came straight out from underneath.

 

[melvista]

On my Tempra TD, what I did was to undo all the bolts holding the alty, then try to manouevre it out between the drivehaft & rack. Failed after 45 mins of fiddling, so had the bright idea of removing the bits from the alty, leaving the thing sitting on the driveshaft. You can manoevre the alty around to get at all the necessary 8 or 10 mm bolts quite easily. ( I take the point the car needs to be up - in my case I have a pit).
Having replaced the brushes/rectifier(regulator?) & the black plastic cover the whole shebang was now ready to be refixed, belt tensioned & electrics re-connected, so I started to move the alty back into its right position. B*gger me if it didn't slip, & entirely by itself, fall out past the driveshaft & into the pit!! Fortunately it landed "square " so was OK, but I now had the job of getting the bl**dy thing back on, which took another 45 minutes of fiddling. But - it CAN be done.
I reckon if you show this to the mechanic, it shouldn't take more him more than 90mins to do the job, leaving the alty in situ but loose as I did. I'd put a new polyvee belt on, & be prepared to get it retensioned a week or so later, they seem to stretch quite a bit.

Well I am pleased to say that the job is now done and within 45 minutes! No hoists or pit, he drove the car up on to ramps outside my home, got under the car and set to work. Just under an hour later he showed me the old bit and said the alternator was now working fine and the light goes out after the engine starts. He replaced the Regulator (with brushes) and tested the Rectifier which he said didn't need changing so I still have that new in the box! I am very pleased and he charged me £35 which I was happy to pay. That was much better than £287 to the main dealer or £90 plus VAT to the other garage who couldn't do it for another few weeks. THIS mechanic works mobile and came to me. I shall use him again for any future jobs that need doing. It's nice to find an honest guy who didn't try to rip me off.

 

[Hellcat]

Very good news!

You should ask him if he would like you to recommend him to other Fiat owners..

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has spent nearly a hour trying to remove the alternator through the bottom or side. The bulkhead, turbo and drive shaft all conspire to prevent it coming out... so I dove in from the top!

Removed all the bits in red (basically power steering pump and some brackets and pipes) and got it out that way. Once it was out I only changed the regulator/brushes but it was much easier to work on, made access to clean the armature with a fibre stick easier.

 

[Ziomike]

Keep that guy's number !

Very good news!, You should ask him if he would like you to recommend him to other Fiat owners.. so I dove in from the top!...Removed all the bits in red (basically power steering pump and some brackets and pipes) and got it out that way. Once it was out I only changed the regulator/brushes but it was much easier to work on,

That was how I did mine in the end, but what a so & so just to get to the alternator.

 

[pycoed]

Good news - definitely worth using that guy again!https://www.fiatforum.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

 

[melvista]

Good news - definitely worth using that guy again!https://www.fiatforum.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

All's well that ends well, until the next time! Thanks to all you guys who gave me hope and encouragement by relating your own experiences regarding the job being done in situ, otherwise I might have never considered it. The guy that changed the regulator for me was trained to work on Porches! Just watching him shows very quickly that he is a no nonsense mechanic who goes straight to the heart of the problem and simply gets on with the job. He is in constant demand and I can see why.