General Stilo rally abarth

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General Stilo rally abarth

Stilorally

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Hello all!

I've just joined the Forum, after buying a Stilo Abarth Trofeo rally car, which I shall be using in European Championship rallies for the next few years (if I don't crash!).

After 15 years of Hondas, this is quite a culture shock, and I don't know much about Fiats, I have to admit! My car was built by N-Technology in Italy, and goes very nicely, although it's not easy to find the right technique for gearchanging with the dogbox fitted.

Got a couple of queries: does anyone know where I can get a second-hand standard gearbox, to use as spare, for this 1800 16V model? Also, what about a workshop manuel, which I am definitely going to need!?

Thanks for rading this.....
 
if you click on gallery at the top toolbar thingy you can upload your pics up on there.

as for stilo gearbox, a bit of research on Quaiffe diffs said stilo boxes use the same diff as tipo based one so in effect an alfa 156/147 TS gearbox should be the same, though can't guarentee anything.
 
Thanks - that is really helpful, and I never would have thought about that application! What about Barchetta 1800s and/or Croma 1800s? Am gpoing to try and download some photos...
 
Plenty of room for stickers, if they're pretty! Yes, it's a nice cage and a very strong seam-welded shell. Will be doing 3-day European Championship rallies, mostly in France and Belgium.
By the way, does anybody have any hints for gearchanging with the dogbox (no syncromesh) fitted, as it's not easy?
Second question: does anybody know if either the diesel or the 1.6 gearbox will fit the 1.8 16V engine?
 
Actually, the "dog" in dogbox does not refer to the gears at all, but the the shifting mechanism. You can have a dogbox without straight cut gears. And you you can have a straight cut gearbox with synchronizers.
Production car gearboxes have helical cut gears to keep them quiet. The constant mesh and thrust of the helical cut design keeps the gears quiet but they generally not as strong as straight cut gears and do not transmit torque as efficiently. Straight cut teeth are ususally bigger but there is backlash and the teeth knocking together produce the distinctive gear whine. Gear profile has a lot to do with how much noise there is, some straight cut gearsets are not that noisy at all.

Production gearboxes also use synchronizers to provide smooth, quiet shifting. The synchro's job is to "grab" the gear when you are shifting and match it to the same speed as the driven shaft to provide a smooth silent shift with no grinding. This happens as you move the lever into the gate for that particular gear.
The trouble with synchros is they slow down the shifting process and they have little teeth which aren't so strong compared to the mysterious "dogs". The engaging teeth on the gears are equally small so you could potentially strip all the little synchro engaging teeth (you can also call them dog teeth) off the gear and have no more drive in that gear even though all the gear teeth are in perfect condition!

A dogshift box does without the synchronizers. Instead you have 6 or 8 big dog "teeth" on the gear. On the shift slider you may have a corresponding number of "slots" that the dogs fit into. The are other designs as well. When you shift since there is no synchro to make the gear speeds match you have to match revs with a blip of the throttle for a smooth shift. But that's not necessarily accurate, really, because you can crash it right in. That's why they are also known as "crashboxes". The clutch is not required when shifting. When accelerating a quick, partial lift of the throttle will do. When downshifting a blip of the throttle to match revs will ensure a smooth shift. A dogbox will shift as fast as you can move the gear lever! No waiting for synchros. When you try to shift slowly is when you are most likely to grind a dogbox! When driving around on the street I will usually use the clutch but in competition the clutch is only for starts. One advantage is being able to downshift in a corner without the clutch while left foot braking.
Also, the dog mechanisms don't take up as much room as synchros so a wider gear can be fitted.
 
found this on Hewland site,

Methods of Changing Gear By William Hewland.
July 2000

The following is some info regarding shifting gear and face dog wear. I am in the fortunate position where I have a good amount of knowledge on the subject, as I understand the mechanical side and the user (driver) side equally well.

N.B. For succesful gear shifting, remember that it is critical to ensure that all mechanical elements between the drivers hand and the dog faces are in good order and properly set. This includes the gear linkage in the chassis!

Successful up-shifting, (defined as fast and non dog-damaging) will be achieved by fully moving the dog ring as rapidly as possible from one gear to the next, preferably with the engine's driving load removed until the shift is completed. (The opposite is true of a synchromesh gearbox as used in passenger cars, where slow movement helps). It should be remembered that it is not possible to damage the dogs when fully engaged (in gear). The damage can only take place when initiating contact during a shift, (the `danger zone`) therefore this element must be made as short as possible. If a driver moves the gear lever slowly, or if the linkage is not rigid and effective, dog wear will occur. We always recommend lightweight yet solid rod linkage, not cables ideally.

I list below the different methods of up-shifting that are used in racing most commonly. The best at the top, the worst at the bottom:

Automated (semi automated). The movement of the dog ring is powered and the engine is cut / re-instated in a co-ordinated manner. Gear-shifts take milliseconds. This system produces zero dog wear when set up well. It is not applicable to most cars, but it illustrates that speed of shift is a good thing.

Manual with engine cut. This system is almost as good as an automated one as long as the driver pulls the lever very quickly. Again it is not applicable to many cars, but it illustrates that speed of shift is a good thing. A `cheat` version of this is to shift on the engine rev limiter, which can work well. With this system it is especially important to move the lever ultra fast, otherwise the engine will be reinstated during partial dog engagement, causing damage. The damage can usually be felt by the driver.

Manual.
Best method: With no assistance from the engine management, the driver must lift off the throttle sufficiently to allow the dog ring to be pulled out of engagement. He should then stay off the throttle long enough to allow the dog ring to engage with the next gear. In practice, the driver can move the gear lever faster than he can move his foot off and back on to the throttle. Therefore the effective method is to apply load to the gear lever with your hand and then lift the throttle foot off and back on to the pedal as fast as physically possible. In lifting your foot, the loaded gear lever will almost involuntarily flick to the next gear before the foot is re-applied to the throttle.
Another method is to load the gear lever with your hand, stay flat on the throttle and dab the clutch to release the dog ring. The overall effect on the gear shift is similar to the above method, but clutch wear may become a big issue.
The worst method (most destructive and definitely slowest) is to attempt to change gear in a `passenger car / synchromesh` way, i.e. lifting off the throttle, dipping the clutch, moving the gear lever, letting the clutch up and re-instating the throttle. The method causes unnecessary clutch wear, does absolutely nothing to help come out of gear and usually causes dog wear whilst engaging the next gear. This wear is due to several reasons. Firstly, it is impossible for a driver to co-ordinate the complicated sequence of all five physical movements accurately. Consequently the engagement dogs often find themselves engaging whilst the throttle is applied. The lever is usually pulled more slowly as it was not pre-loaded, lengthening the `danger zone`.

William HewlandSuccessful down-shifting, has similar rules applied regarding speed of shift. Unloading the dogs is done in the opposite manner obviously. Whilst braking, the dogs must be unloaded by either touching the throttle pedal or- my preferred method- by dipping the clutch. However, one sharp dab of clutch or throttle is appropriate per shift. Continued pressure on either will cause dog damage for different reasons. `Blipping the throttle` just before engagement is advisable if the rev drops between gears are over 1300 rpm, as this will aid engagement and stabilise the car.

TOP TIP for ease of downshifting: Make the downshifts as late as possible in your braking zone (i.e. at lower road speed), because the rev drops between each gear are then lower. So many drivers make the mistake of downshifting as soon as they begin braking, causing gearbox wear, engine damage and `disruption` to the driving wheels.

This is a subject which can be much expanded on, but I feel that these are the basics, which I hope are of use.
 
Thank you, Hellcat! Thanks also for taking the time to find the Hewland tips, which I had in fact been trying to apply. After about a week's practice, I'm doing OK with the downchanges, by blipping the throttle as usual. Upchanges aren't always 'graunch' free, so I shall try and move my hand faster. If I can get it to work, it should save quite a bit of time on the stages.

No, the car didn't come from Walker's Garage, although I believe they were selling one for a customer.

First rally is in April, the Rallye de Wallonie in Belgium.
 
where did you get this car from and how much did you pay for it? how many HP does it have? is it fun driving? :D
 
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