Technical Steering column rattle

[capers626]

Hi everyone,
(Message for Alex-did you manage to get the rattle on your Punto sorted at all? Only I seem to have got a similar noise albeit on an Uno, the difference being in my case it might be steering related).

Basically, whenever you go over bumps in the road (plenty in Sheffield, the UK's pot hole capital?) or a rough surface, there is a rattle from somewhere on the steering column, which then transfers itself to the steering wheel. There is only a little bit of play in the wheel, suggesting the column shaft bushes are OK. I've already removed the plastic cowling and checked for loose bolts or screws.

Worn UJ's at the base of the column inside the car and the other end where the shaft connects to the steering rack might be the cause, or perhaps the rack itself is shot? Is there a test or way of telling if the UJ's have had it?
I've taken a look at the 'lower steering column shaft coupling joint' (as some people call it) and the pinch bolt doesn't seem to be tight-should it be?!

I've also rung one breaker in case I do need to replace the UJ's and been quoted £10 plus carriage(£8) plus VAT for the 2 joints and connecting shaft (not keen to sell me UJ's separately but perhaps this is a reasonable price anyway).

Need to investigate further before making any final decision.

Any ideas, please?

Thanks,
Andy

 

[alexGS]

Hi everyone,
(Message for Alex-did you manage to get the rattle on your Punto sorted at all? Only I seem to have got a similar noise albeit on an Uno, the difference being in my case it might be steering related).

I had an email to say that you had replied to my thread - but when I got there, there was nothing! Now I know why - it's been moved here :bang:
Ah well!

No, the rattle on my Punto is still a mystery. I shall look for it after I've rebuilt the wiper linkage, since that is definitely clanking.

Basically, whenever you go over bumps in the road (plenty in Sheffield, the UK's pot hole capital?) or a rough surface, there is a rattle from somewhere on the steering column, which then transfers itself to the steering wheel. There is only a little bit of play in the wheel, suggesting the column shaft bushes are OK. I've already removed the plastic cowling and checked for loose bolts or screws.

Worn UJ's at the base of the column inside the car and the other end where the shaft connects to the steering rack might be the cause, or perhaps the rack itself is shot? Is there a test or way of telling if the UJ's have had it?
I've taken a look at the 'lower steering column shaft coupling joint' (as some people call it) and the pinch bolt doesn't seem to be tight-should it be?!

Fortunately the pinch-bolt lives in a notch below the splines, so the UJ can't come off the rack even if the pinch bolt is loose.

I don't think the UJs are a likely cause - well, they would be a cause, but they would be a very unusual failure.

What I think you need is a rack bush. This is a plastic bush in the 'long end' of the steering rack - that is, the left end for us RHD folk. It is something of a pain to change, because the rack has to be removed (not that difficult) and the inner ball joint must be unstaked and unscrewed from the rack (VERY difficult - it's ROUND, so there's nothing to turn!)

I'm going to see if I can find a thread I posted years ago when I did this job to my Turbo. In my case the rack bush had already been replaced, but whoever did it left mash-marks on the rack (easy to do when you have to use locking-grips) and these burrs wore out the new bush!

EDIT: Turns out I never did really report on the job, I didn't seem to post the pictures... here was the thread anyway https://www.fiatforum.com/uno-technical/63263-steering-rack-bush.html

EDIT 2: On my PC, I've found the pictures! They're attached.

First pic shows the rack bush.

Second pic shows round balljoint housing - with no flats - and the broken remains of the original bush! (in addition to the replacement) - whoever fitted the replacement didn't bother to clean out the original!

Third pic shows the damage to the rack that wore out the replacement bush.


To decide whether the job needs doing, you might try winding the steering all the way to the right (so that the left of the rack is extended), then grasp the rack-end firmly (through the boot), and try to waggle it around. There should be no discernible play.

Also check outer balljoints (inner balljoints are spring-loaded and unlikely to be a problem). Usually though, outer balljoints would be an MOT failure. The rack bush is less likely to be picked up...

Of course, my Punto could well require a rack bush as well, since being a manual (non-hydraulic) rack, it's probably a similar design to the Uno rack. I'm sure if you were really keen, Punto electric power steering could be grafted-on to the Uno

Cheers,
-Alex

 

[capers626]

Hi Alex,

Sorry about the thread mix up-perhaps in hindsight I should have posted 2 messages, one for each model of car to avoid confusion.

Car is going in to be examined later today so thanks for the useful info.
I have a feeling that if it is steering rack related I may be advised that it would be better to replace the (probably original) rack itself, not just the bush. But will see how it goes and report back.

Cheers,
Andy

 

[capers626]

Garage has had a look. Reckoned to have checked the steering rack and think all is OK-not much play or wear (they tightened the loose pinch bolt on the UJ). Still have a major problem on uneven roads though. Looks like it might be worth doing an accompanied road test; unfortunately the garage is short of staff for next 2 weeks! Perhaps a second opinion instead. Watch this space.

Cheers, Andy

 

[PaulDrage]

Any news on this?
Was just going to say, when i used to work in a main dealership we had a tool for removing the "inner rack joints", it fitted over the inner joint, then when you turned the tool it would grip the inner joint and turn it off quite easily..
see attached if you want

 

[capers626]

In the end, replaced the steering rack and the UJ shaft as both had play in them (rack on one side only). Thanks for info though.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[PaulDrage]

..and it cured the problem? a whole rack and steering uj's?

 

[capers626]

Yes, that's right, the prob has been cured!