My steering wheel moves in and out about 1cm because the steering column is not tight with the steering box spline. Ofcourse I have tight the M13 screw up to its end but still it is loose. The thing is that splines look ok and not that worn so I wonder if they have replaced the steering box with a different type that is somehow smaller. Any ideas about how to overcome this? Maybe secure it with some epoxy glue or any other special product.
Technical Steering column is loose.
- Thread starter gordinir8
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Technical Steering column is loose.
Paolo66
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The screw should go through a recess in the splines so even if the screw is loose you should not be able to pull the steering wheel up or down. A 126 steering box has shorter splines but I also think it has a different number of splines as well (?)
Not my case
I will have to check this detail, thank youAll i know is that previous owner had a problem with the steering box and had it ''repair'' in a shop!!
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the hobbler
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When your steering was 'repaired', did they re-fit the pinch-bolt correctly, or even the CORRECT bolt? The pinch-bolt can be very fiddly to fit, and is quite a tight fit. When the pinch-bolt is in place, even if the nut is not very tight, there would be very little up/down movement of the top section (with the steering wheel attached)
^^ x2.
Also check that there is a small gap in the steering column bottom clamp - if not, the bolt can be tightened fully but the clamp won't grip the steering box shaft tightly.
Also check that the correct bolt is fitted and is not running out of threads i.e. the plain section under the bolt head is not contacting the threaded section inside the column clamp.
Iirc, there might be a 'master spline' on this steering column and steering box shaft connection. (A master spline is where there is one groove not cut and means the column and shaft will only fit together correctly in one position). I can't remember if the 'master spline' on the steering box shaft aligns with the split in the steering column of if the steering column has a seperate double width groove to mate with the steering box shaft - you'd have to separate both components and examine. If incorrectly assembled, it can result in the column clamp bolt being tightened fully but not clamping the steering box shaft fully.
If the splines are worn, there is a Loctite product called iirc? 'Spline Lock' that could be used to take up the excess clearance but be aware you'll have a helluva job separating the parts afterwards - have to use lots of heat.
(To be technically correct, the above grooves are serrations not splines )
AL.
Also check that there is a small gap in the steering column bottom clamp - if not, the bolt can be tightened fully but the clamp won't grip the steering box shaft tightly.
Also check that the correct bolt is fitted and is not running out of threads i.e. the plain section under the bolt head is not contacting the threaded section inside the column clamp.
Iirc, there might be a 'master spline' on this steering column and steering box shaft connection. (A master spline is where there is one groove not cut and means the column and shaft will only fit together correctly in one position). I can't remember if the 'master spline' on the steering box shaft aligns with the split in the steering column of if the steering column has a seperate double width groove to mate with the steering box shaft - you'd have to separate both components and examine. If incorrectly assembled, it can result in the column clamp bolt being tightened fully but not clamping the steering box shaft fully.
If the splines are worn, there is a Loctite product called iirc? 'Spline Lock' that could be used to take up the excess clearance but be aware you'll have a helluva job separating the parts afterwards - have to use lots of heat.
(To be technically correct, the above grooves are serrations not splines
)AL.
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Tom welcome back, from what you are saying here I don't have the correct bolt! Mine is a full length threaded bolt. If anyone got a spare I would like to know the dimensions of the body and try to find one.
the hobbler
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Morning Tom;
About to go "grandaughter sitting", but have had a look in my 'Factory' parts catalogue. The Fiat part number for the bolt is:--16043821. Looking at the picture (and my memory) the bolt screws into a thread on one side of the 'pinch'---it therefore can only go in from ONE direction (it has NO nut). According to the picture, the bolt has a section of thread-free shank and a short length of thread.
About to go "grandaughter sitting", but have had a look in my 'Factory' parts catalogue. The Fiat part number for the bolt is:--16043821. Looking at the picture (and my memory) the bolt screws into a thread on one side of the 'pinch'---it therefore can only go in from ONE direction (it has NO nut). According to the picture, the bolt has a section of thread-free shank and a short length of thread.
Yes Tom i just found this p/n also and Google it. It's just a M8x30 bolt with 05cm free of threads body. I don't think that makes any diference from the one I have but I will replace it anyway. Problem remains.
I got a closer look today, I removed the bolt and looked through the hole. I can't see the groove that the bolt passing through or even the splines and that's because the steering box shaft has much smaller diameter than it should be and it is loose inside the column. I have the bolt overtight so much that the gap on the steering column almost closes! This eliminates any right or left play but not the up and down problem. It must be more than one shaft size available and I have the wrong one.
Thomas
Thomas
For the record i measured the part of the shaft that enters the column tube and found it 14.66mm (measurement taken on the splines) while the clean part of the shaft is 15mm. If someone got a spare steering box and can measure the spline shaft i would like to know what size it is.
So I contact Axel Gerstl and they had the kindness to measure a couple of different steering boxes only to find that all shafts have the same diameter around 14.8mm like miñe so I guess that problem comes from my column. So I drink a can of beer, cut a small pice of aluminium and use it as a shim between the shaft and column! So far works ok.
Thomas
Thomas
I have the same issue, but I just ignored it because I did not want to take the time to fix it. What exactly did you have to manufacture for your part?
I think what 'gordinir8' did was cut a small piece from his empty :yum: beer can (very thin sheet aluminium) and inserted it between the steering box shaft and steering column coupling to take up the excess clearance. As he says to use 'as a shim'.
AL.
I'm not sure if you have the necessary material mass to do this but I had a similar problem with the steering column to steering box shaft on an early Fiat 124 Sport Coupe.
Having broken the standard 8mm bolt (i.e. I overtightened it
) trying to get the column to grip the shaft securely, I drilled the hole oversize and tapped it to M10x1.25mm pitch by ? length and fitted a socket head cap screw (i.e. takes an Allen key instead of a 17mm socket). This I could now tighten enough to clamp the column securely.Or you could use a suitable Loctite product as I mentioned earlier if your aluminium shim idea doesn't work out in practice.
AL.
Having broken the standard 8mm bolt (i.e. I overtightened it
Or you could use a suitable Loctite product as I mentioned earlier if your aluminium shim idea doesn't work out in practice.
AL.
Nice idea, ill keep it as a plan B in a case my current mod fail. Loctite has the disadvantage that it might be hard to remove.
Thomas
I've done what exactly Al (F123C) explains on previous post. I cut a piece about 2.5cm X 3cm and first curve it on a pencil so to take a cylindrical shape, i then put it on the splined shaft of the steering box that was attached in the car but with all the bolts loose so i can have some space to clear the column from the shaft. I then put the aluminum piece and using a wedge chisel and a hummer i opened the column clamp, then i just insert the column in and tight from bellow the three steering box nuts so the box and shaft find their position in the column . I succeed this by 3rd attempt and every time with a new piece of aluminum. All i have to tell is that the driving feeling has changed a lot because my steering wheel is now solid.
Thomas
Clamp has two holes, one with thread and one without so there is only one way to put it in. By the way it is starting to getting loose again:bang::bang::bang:
Since the beer can aluminum spacer worked for about 3-4 days things start to get loose again so back in the hangar. This time I removed the column for a closer look and found the serrations very worn inside probably because of column and steering box misalignment. Found a fiat 126 column which comes with u-joints. So I cut the lower part of my column , cut the 126 column, insert it inside the 500 tube (126 rod OD is only 02mm thicker from column ID so guys at work reduce the 126 rod diameter with the grinding disc, nothing hard) weld it, paint it and not I have a perfect steering system.:slayer::slayer: I can now see the misalignment of the steering box rod and the column but who cares since now I have a U joint.
Thomas
so back in the hangar. This time I removed the column for a closer look and found the serrations very worn inside probably because of column and steering box misalignment. Found a fiat 126 column which comes with u-joints. So I cut the lower part of my column , cut the 126 column, insert it inside the 500 tube (126 rod OD is only 02mm thicker from column ID so guys at work reduce the 126 rod diameter with the grinding disc, nothing hard) weld it, paint it and not I have a perfect steering system.:slayer::slayer: I can now see the misalignment of the steering box rod and the column but who cares since now I have a U joint.Thomas
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the hobbler
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Well done Thomas--1st class outcome to your problem--I am impressed.
