Technical Steering clunk

[WyreWheels]

Hi,

Back again with another problem. So far, I've not physically looked at the car in any detail as I only noticed it last night parking it up, so I had a listen/feel again this morning as I arrived at work.

Essentially, there's a clunk and physical "thing" to overcome in the steering when it's coming off full lock or the wheels are turned at about 45° to the left. This happens when the car is stationary (with the engine running, I've not tried it with it off). At part lock, I can see the wheels judder as the clunk happens. The noise seems to come from underfoot, i.e I can feel it through my feet if I'm sat in it. When it's being driven, it seems fine and it's steady and there's nothing to suggest anything is wrong.

I'd expect worn ball joints to be wayward all the time, but this seems more specific to a particular point. Strut top mounts maybe? I can see the top mount move ever so slightly when I'm turning the steering wheel.

 

[jrkitching]

MOT testers are very good at finding and evaluating steering and suspension faults; they spend all their working day looking at just this sort of thing.

I've suggested in the past that one way of pinning down these kinds of faults is to take the car for an MOT.

But I'd start by getting someone to turn the steering wheel from side to side whilst you have a look underneath.

 

[koalar]

Unfortunately nobody can say change this that or other, as several parts can have the same symptoms

I have just done a very similar one about two weeks ago

It was quite easy to find as it was consistent

I suspected.a broken spring

So what I did was put my hand on the top of the stut and got someon to turn the steering wheel

I could feel a clunk

Moved to the bottom of the strut

Still there

Moved to the suspension arm

Not therel

But it could have easily been a top mount,.suspension bush. Inner tie rod and so on

 

[WyreWheels]

I’ll have a look over the weekend. Thanks for the feeling tip, I’d not considered a spring, the noise is a bit more like a twang, so maybe it is spring related.

 

[koalar]

I’ll have a look over the weekend. Thanks for the feeling tip, I’d not considered a spring, the noise is a bit more like a twang, so maybe it is spring related.

It's 50/50 but sometimes you will see is a difference in the gap between the wheel arch and top of the tyre

I visual check is as good a place as any to start

 

[WyreWheels]

Back under the car! I’ve had a feel of the ball joints while No1 Son rocked the steering and the seem OK. However, there’s movement where the steering arm (?) comes out of the rack on the offside (right) per the video below.

The outer of the rack is fixed firm, so suspect this is the cause. The noise is definitely coming from the rack under the car.

Edit: plastics bushings at the end of the track rod? Looks like a crap job to do if it is.

 

[koalar]

Back under the car! I’ve had a feel of the ball joints while No1 Son rocked the steering and the seem OK. However, there’s movement where the steering arm (?) comes out of the rack on the offside (right) per the video below.

View attachment 488624

The outer of the rack is fixed firm, so suspect this is the cause. The noise is definitely coming from the rack under the car.

Edit: plastics bushings at the end of the track rod? Looks like a crap job to do if it is.

Looks to me like it should have failed last MOT

There a special tool and you will need some extensions

See if I can find a link a recommend one recently that got the job done, the proper grade professional tool isn't cheap

 

[koalar]

Here you go

Panda 100HP brake problem | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hi all, I'm new here, so hopefully I'm asking a question in the correct place. I have just renewed the rear axel complete with new disks and one new caliper (the n/s caliper was serviceable) and a new hub with ABS ring, on my 2008 Panda 100 HP and now I've bleed the brakes using a pressure kit...

www.fiatforum.com

Make sure it's grease free
And dont over tighten it

Not normally super tight on the panda

Not great quality, but gets the job done if you are careful with it


@irc is probably the best person to advice if it's worth changing both sides, or just the one with play

 

[irc]

I've not come across any Pandas where one side is really bad and the other is perfect, so I've always changed both sides.
I usually change the track Rod ends too, if they are very crusty (or show any signs of play or damage to the rubbers).

As you should then get the tracking checked/adjusted, don't forget to check the lower arm bushes too.

 

[WyreWheels]

Looks to me like it should have failed last MOT

There a special tool and you will need some extensions

See if I can find a link a recommend one recently that got the job done, the proper grade professional tool isn't cheap

Thank you. I see a new rack is around £130 but the job reads like a tough job on the 500. If the bushes etc can be replaced in-situ reasonably easily at home, I’ll have a crack at it.

Re the MOT, the car was supposedly prepped and MOT’d by a family member who sold it to my Dad to give to my son. It passed with no advisories last September and to be frank, I’m considering contacting DVSA about it. The rear spring cup earlier this year and the tyres I’ve just taken off were astonishing.

 

[jrkitching]

I’m considering contacting DVSA about it

There's a formal appeal process you can follow if you think a vehicle has passed an MOT when it should have been failed.

Unfortunately, you're now out of time to make such an appeal.

 

[WyreWheels]

Well out of time! My wife is livid about what has failed on the car.

 

[WyreWheels]

I've not come across any Pandas where one side is really bad and the other is perfect, so I've always changed both sides.
I usually change the track Rod ends too, if they are very crusty (or show any signs of play or damage to the rubbers).

As you should then get the tracking checked/adjusted, don't forget to check the lower arm bushes too.

Our son passed his driving test in the Panda today, so now I can get it sorted over a few nights of swearing at it after work and find a date in the future that's cheaper for insurance.

I've seen the inner and outer ends for sale as a set for both sides for £33 or so on eBay, so I'll go for those probably. Seems the "expensive" items are the gaiters if I can't save them.

The lower arms were replaced a couple or three years ago, they were an advisory on a previous MOT and are visibly newer than the rest of their surroundings so I'm hoping they'll do.

 

[WyreWheels]

I’ve just spent an hour wrestling with the offside tie rod and eventually chopped the nut off the hub end of it and undid it off the inner track rod.

Expecting a lot of play, there doesn’t seem to be any. However, after grabbing the hub and turning it lock to lock, there’s a lot of grumbling from the top mount and it moves about quite a lot.

I appreciate there’s no weight on it, but that looks and sounds like it’s . To be fair, the strut looks like it could do with replacing.

Opinions welcome!

 

[AnthonyH]

View attachment 488773I’ve just spent an hour wrestling with the offside tie rod and eventually chopped the nut off the hub end of it and undid it off the inner track rod.

Expecting a lot of play, there doesn’t seem to be any. However, after grabbing the hub and turning it lock to lock, there’s a lot of grumbling from the top mount and it moves about quite a lot.

I appreciate there’s no weight on it, but that looks and sounds like it’s . To be fair, the strut looks like it could do with replacing.

Opinions welcome!

The strut mount is dead as a doornail and needs replacing.

When you take the strut off the car to replace the mount you'll likely find that the strut dies too.

The steering rack is likely to be just fine and this is the cause of the problem you were having.

 

[WyreWheels]

I’m quite happy it is more likely to be the top mounts rather than the track rod ends. What’s annoying is that this is an ideal time to get some lowered suspension on it, but as my son is a new driver I don’t think it’s happening this time.

I’ll return the tie rod set and the tool for getting them off and get some top mounts and struts ordered. And some spring compressors.

 

[koalar]

You can't tell like this

It's only the weight of the car that holds it in place

This will drop down half an inch or more and rub

Looks like the strut is leaking unless someone squirted some oil up there

Needs a better photo really

 

[WyreWheels]

I’ve not sprayed anything at that. I’ll put the wheel back on, get it on the ground and give it a twirl (tomorrow).

 

[koalar]

I’ve not sprayed anything at that. I’ll put the wheel back on, get it on the ground and give it a twirl (tomorrow).

Does the bottom of the strut, top left in my photo feel oily

 

[koalar]

I don't want to put you off

ideal time to get some lowered suspension

But be aware the standard Panda does not much clearance on the front of the exhaust, I banged mine many times

The 100HP get away with being lowered by stiffening the spring