Technical Starting problems

[Aussie79x19]

Hi all,
Now for another question with my 1979 1300cc X1/9.
We seem to have problems starting. Sometimes we are just getting a click, sometimes nothing on turning the key. Try again and the car will start without a problem.
We found that the starter motor solenoid was cracked, so we replaced the whole unit with an overhauled starter motor and solenoid. We also discovered that the alternator was undercharging the battery, so we replaced the alternator with an overhauled unit, but we are still having the same issues.
I have also noticed with the headlights on, that the alternator warning light is illuminated slightly.
Would changing the battery be a worthwhile option. We did test it and it seemed to hold its charge ok.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.

 

[bludvl_x19]

I would be tempted to change out the battery, just to eliminate that for sure.

 

[popsprocket]

How old is the battery and has it been sitting for long at all?

Can you describe the clicking noise, is it like sparking electricity or a mechanical click?

 

[jimbro1000]

The charging light is something of a wild goose chase on this one but does need attention. The cause is the column switch for the dip/main beam switchover - basically there isn't a relay in the circuit so all of the current goes through the switch which tends to get hot and degrades over time. A 1979 X1/9 should have a relay for full beam so it is only the dipped beam that needs attention. Do a search here and you should find some instructions on how to fix it (without cutting any wires on the car).

The starting problem is likely to be down to a poor earth of battery feed. Again this isn't uncommon and is the resulted of degraded wiring, I would suggest replacing the main power cable to the engine bay (this handles charging and starting) *and* the brown wire mod which should fix the degraded power supply to the cabin. Most of your problems are likely to disappear with these fixes in place.

Just keep in mind that the car is 30 years old and 80's Fiat wiring is pretty awful coupled with the huge complexity of the wiring in the X1/9 - basically a recipe for an autoelectricians nightmare unless you know your way around.

 

[Ics19]

Starter: Also well worth cleaning/replacing the earth strap on gearbox to chassis as can cause the starter click of doom / slow turning especially when engine is hot. More likely to need the so called BWM if you can't get some decent connections on the battery feed/loop through at the fusebox. The ignition switch may also be suspect and dropping volts. Best way to test is connect direct from battery feed at starter bolt to solenoid input to elimate the switch/feed wiring (I doubt you'll need to replace the battery feed cable, it's quite chunky already ).

Charging light: Worth cleaning up the alternator to engine bracket surfaces or just stick on another earth strap to body to test. Biggest change would be to replace the alternator to starter charging cable with something that doesn't have a melted bullet connector joint in it like your current piece of wire .

Lights: You didn't mention dim lights in OP, but JB says "relay" which has got to be good and will stop the dashboard rocker switch (slider type on late cars) from melting too - you probably won't get away without cutting a wire, but relatively easy none the less..

 

[jimbro1000]

Definitely possible to fix the relay problem without cutting wires - you even keep the entire operation inside the fusebox on a Fiat 1500 (the Bertone 1500s have a more complex fusebox that isn't quite so easy to work with). All you need is a few extra lengths of wire, one or two relays (depending on preference) and some spade terminals with barbs to stop them floating out of the spare relay holders that the cars come with.

The hardest part is locating the power (the brown wire) and a decent earthing point for the relay circuit.

The easy way to tell if the problem is the alternator or the lights is if the charging light is on stronger with dipped lights compared with main beam (which have proper relay circuits for full beam on a '79).

I disagree with the main power feed - after 30 years the corrosion along the length of the wire is going to be significant if not visually obvious. The resulting increase in impedence will have a significant effect on charging and starting.

 

[leos mr fixit]

New battery mate...
No point in messing with the wiring until you're sure of a good shot of juice!!

 

[Aussie79x19]

Wow! Thanks so much for all the great advice.
I am getting the car looked at on Monday, so will let you know the outcome. I do plan to replace the battery as I don't know how old it is and I know it did fail an initial test, but after charging appeared to hold its charge, so we decided to see how it went. So the battery will be the first to go.
Once again, thanks everyone for your advice.

 

[Aussie79x19]

How old is the battery and has it been sitting for long at all?

Can you describe the clicking noise, is it like sparking electricity or a mechanical click?

Popsprocket...it's a mechanical click sound